CHARLOTTE PLANNING COMMISSION

Guests Signed in:

Sylvia Sprigg

Nancy P. Sabin

Robert Long

John McGinnis

Linda Radimer

Gloria Warden

Mary Mead

John Rosenthal

Jonathan Fisher

Wade Weathers

Moe Harvey

Jim Sheldon-Dean

Robert Mack

1. General Business, review of Minutes for January 20, 2000: Dean had some suggestions for clarification and some members had slight additions or word substitutions to make statements more clear. A statement that the letter sent to the Charlotte News (apparently by the Selectboard) had been sent on a Planning Commission letterhead with the Planning Commission Chairman’s name, was not with “his” signature, was changed to clarify: without “the Planning Commission Chairman’s” signature.

The continuation of the Major / Cohen Sketch Plan Review is tonight, February 3, 2000 rather than the date of February 2^nd. A further explanation was added to the Holly Callery report to the effect that, after consideration of the answers to her questions Holly will make some decision about how she will proceed.

Jim Donovan moved to approve the minutes as amended. Dave Brown seconded the motion and with there being no further discussion it was approved, 5–0 with one abstention and one member absent.

2. Continuation of Public Hearing for re-adoption of the Town Plan: The hearing was opened and continued to 7:30 p.m. and members of other Boards are not here yet so this is deferred until that time.

3. General Business: Planner Dean Bloch reported that he has received a memo from Vermont Department of Forests, Parks and Recreation, asking whether to have a meeting to discuss the landscape design for the Mount Philo parking lot. Jim Donovan said one of the conditions was that a sub-committee would finalize the landscape design, and although he is on that committee he asked for volunteers. Josie Leavitt will be on the committee. Dean asked Jim to remind them to submit a Mylar.

Nancy Sabin asked when they plan to do this, and whether the Army Corps of Engineers will get involved. Jim said because of timing the Army Corps could not help, but the final landscape work should be done in time for the opening around Memorial Day. Ed Melby added that the grading is already done and the surfacing prepared. There are cement footings for the new gate, and a new well (which has been marked) will be dug further up the mountain near where the electric line crosses the road.

4. Roy Thorpe, Lucy’s Lane – Reaffirmation of Subdivision: Dean Bloch explained that the subdivision was approved in 1978 and recorded in Book #3 Page 24, but the Mylar was not recorded within the required 90–day time frame. Because of State Statutes it has become common practice to reaffirm the Plats that they approved in the past under these circumstances.

Jim Donovan asked Dean if the subdivision was built according to the conditions set forth, but Dean said he has not investigated that. Jim said he is reluctant to reaffirm this subdivision unless he has seen it and is assured that the development has been done according to the conditions.

Gloria Warden said the reaffirmation is solely to correct the technical deficiency in the filing time and has no effect on anything else. It has nothing to do with any other approval, she said. The Planning Office has done many of these and this has been done throughout the State. It was because of the Bianchi decision. The reason this came up is that someone in the development wanted to sell a house, and the error was found.

After discussion among the Planning Commission members, Jeff McDonald moved to reaffirm the Thorpe plat originally approved by the Planning Commission on March 14, 1978 and recorded in Book #3 Page 24. This reaffirmation functions solely to correct the technical deficiency of failure to meet the 90-day filing requirement of the original mylar, and does not in any way approve or validate any changes which could have occurred since the original Planning Commission approval. Dave Brown seconded the motion and without further discussion it was approved, 6–0 with one member absent.

6. Marjorie Major / Geraldine Cohen, continuation of Sketch Plan Review for Subdivision: John McGinnis again represented the applicants. There has been a site visit and Ed Melby reported that the way the property is to be split in two they are following an existing fence line with curvature that uses an old existing roadway. The intention of the builder is not to do the construction for a number of months up to a year. The proposed site is tucked back at on one edge of the property in a mature wooded area with the premise that Marjorie Major made that when it is built it will not be in sight of her existing house. The road access is from the farm road and it does not appear that it will interfere with the viewshed. The people appear to be supportive of trying to work with the land and the terrain very well.

Jim Donovan asked if he could look at the property since he was unable to go on the site visit when it was planned. John said that would be welcomed, but with a call first. Dave Brown would also like to go.

Dean asked if there have been perk tests yet. John McGinnis said there is already a Septic Design and he is awaiting a decision from the Planning Commission on whether this is a Minor or a Major subdivision.

Jim Donovan moved to classify the Major / Cohen as a Minor Subdivision. Dave Brown seconded the motion and with no further discussion it was approved, 6–0 with one member absent.

6. Continuation of Public Hearing (7:30 p.m.): Marty Illick and John Rosenthal represented the Selectboard. Ed Melby summarized the discussion at the hearing two weeks ago which was continued until tonight. “Looking at some data in State Statutes as we interpreted information in there, we understood it to mean that the Planning Commission was precluded from moving the Plan forward as suggested by the Selectboard and we voted accordingly. Subsequent to that, town Attorney Stitzel suggested that we could go ahead and do as the Selectboard has requested, basically that we propose re-adopting the existing Plan. He said in that letter that we can just barely squeak by with required timing so that it can be ready for the March Town Meeting.”

Marty Illick said she believed, after talking with Al Moraska, that he has spoken with Planning Commission members individually and that most of them may agree with re-adopting the current Plan in light of the vulnerability to Act 250 consequences if there is no Town Plan. Marty said she really supports that position especially if this board is willing to go that way. She said she would support Al’s position in not wanting to have any stall tactics in making a schedule for getting a new Plan up and running before the end of the year.

Dave Brown asked for clarification: “If we do this we don’t have to wait for 5 years?” Ed Melby said that if we re-adopt this now, and the concern is not to have this sitting there for another 5 years, we can go ahead and amend it. The amendment could be total. We can then go ahead and set in motion a procedure to correct whatever needs to be done for a town vote (hopefully by November) and it would stand as an amendment of the existing Plan. It can’t be called a new Plan, but it must be called an amendment for the current Plan.

Jim Donovan said his concern was, having the current Plan in place for another 5 years somewhat removes the pressure to do something about getting the new Plan in place.

Jeff noted that when he spoke with officials in Shelburne, there hadn’t been too much ramification resulting from the fact that they didn’t have a Plan in place for two years. He said he would hate to miss a vote that was because we didn’t have a Plan for eight months or so. But he does not think it’s an earth-shattering thing not to have one.

Marty Illick said she hopes the work on the new Plan can be done before summer. Dave Brown asked what would happen if for some reason the work can’t be completed by November. John Rosenthal said he certainly wants to have it done, at the very latest by November.

Ed said in light of the fact that at least two members of the Selectboard are up for re-election next month, whatever agreement we make now has to apply to the successors if there are any.

Jeff said there may be legal ramifications with the technical terms (such as the words, should, shall, promptly) in the statutes that say no more than 120 days, you only have a couple of months and then have to start that 120 days to have this happen. So he asks the Selectboard to tell us exactly what issues need to be addressed as the sticking points in the new Plan.

John Rosenthal said he had given a list to Dean, but did not pass out the list to members of the Planning Commission. Jim said there is a mistake on that memo in that the Selectboard did not have the second public hearing. Marty said she has a copy of the list and would mention some of them. She said there are five different issues that they couldn’t really address by changing a few words here and there, based on things that were so controversial that they would prevent the Plan from passing.

1) Transfer of old development rights (Local and Regional pages 120 and 140). Those are ones that the Selectboard felt they needed to work around to get what they (the Selectboard) want to achieve.

2) Make sure we have enough information in the Plan that addresses Act 60. Have we done a thorough job at analyzing our zones and areas regarding what parts of Act 60 would apply to our town.

3) Questioning establishing an Economic Development Committee, because Act 60 does not encourage economic growth as much as it used to.

4) District zones and areas; they seemed, at least to the Selectboard, to be confusing to the reader, Marty said. They want to see what they could do in terms of the maps in relation to the zones.

5) Changing the terms hamlet, village, rural cluster to neighborhood and agricultural–residential zones. Marty thought the language was a little bit tough in terms of where we are, for instance there is a projection of 115 new homes in 5 years.

Marty said we have to decide how much to put in the Plan that agrees with what our goals are. Those are the five biggest things the Selectboard wants to work on. She said the Selectboard will have to come back with the Planning Commission and work to get this completed.

Ed Melby stated the Planning Commission’s part in this. This (new Town Plan) has involved an effort which involved many, many volunteers and committees and sub-committees, and was a lot of work. Personally, Ed said, if he were to sit down and write the Plan he may have changed some of the wording, etc. “But we really leaned over backwards to try as best we could to encompass the views of the majority of the participants. This is not just the views of the Planning Commission and we did try to reflect the fact that we tried to use the majority views of those participants rather than the majority of this committee. We know that the particular wording that some of the committees had come to an agreement on, either did not get in or were changed after it got to the Selectboard.”

Marty said she knows that. John Rosenthal said the time was just too short.

Ed added that it was a difficult year in that part of the year we had no staff, then there was a period of transition after Dean was hired. “When I sat down and really read the Town Plan after Dean had finished it up I was pleased. I’d like to commend Dean, who came into this so late in the process and then really word smithed it to make it look like a document that was written professionally. We did this under duress, with a lot of participation by the Town and we have come pretty close to having a pretty good document.”

John Rosenthal agreed. “But we want to get it passed. All it takes is a few people to say that it some of the things are completely un-acceptable. Several years ago we went through this and it failed.”

Ed added that if we end up with an agreement this evening, we have a couple of hurdles to take care of tonight and tomorrow. It would behoove us not to let this slip, he said. Josie asked what the time-table is for this.

Jim Donovan: Given the election coming up, what guarantees does the Planning Commission have that the Selectboard will have this work done? Marty said any Selectboard can vote anything they want whenever they want. Jim persisted: “Then what’s the answer?” Marty: “Go out and lobby.” Josie asked if we can get a schedule set tonight, in the minutes. Then at least there is something that is documented, that’s public, that says, “This is what we are thinking of doing.” Marty said the Selectboard would like it done before the end of May.

Marty added that they haven’t decided if they want to seek the advice of a consultant, or have a short study, or how they will proceed. Dave Brown said that is what we are afraid of; that they will have this study and that study and then it’s not ready etc., then we’re stuck with it for another five years. Dean asked the Selectboard how they will address their concerns.

John Rosenthal said he really wrote this list more for the Selectboard because he felt that they were the things they would want, not necessarily his own concerns. He said he wrote down their concerns only because they felt it might wreck the Plan and it might fail. Marty said first the Selectboard should come to the Planning Commission and make sure we have incorporated everything from the body of knowledge. Then they would take it to some professionals and take what they come up with to public hearings.

Ed Melby noted that this has been a community effort, and suggested that during this process by the Selectboard there should at least be a liaison from the Planning Commission.

Nancy Sabin asked, “What is the process? As far as I know there has been just one Selectboard meeting on this viewed from the public. Some of the major concerns, I don’t feel are addressed in John Rosenthal’s paper there. What is the process to select just the things that are on that paper? It goes to the Selectboard, and it goes with the Planning Commission, and then things are re-written. Then what?”

Ed Melby summarized: “What we are trying to come up with tonight, based on the recommendations of the town attorney, is to give to the Selectboard in time for a warning for the Town Meeting, to re-adopt the existing Plan. Once we have done that, then the Town will not be without a Plan. A subsequent discussion now, is, what are we going to do in terms of taking the new Plan that we have worked on, and driving it as a revision to the old Plan and get it passed by November. The discussion now is to decide how we are going to accomplish this with appropriate input and knowledge of people who are familiar with it.”

Nancy continued, “How are you going to do it? I’ve sat in on meetings where a person, not a group, has changed whole paragraphs and crossed out sentences and added several sentences, and then these changes were handed off to be typed without the original committee’s knowledge. This was one person doing that who never came to any group discussions. Also there was on John’s paper, nothing on historical districts. That was a big topic for our group, to say nothing of the Selectboard group.” Jim Donovan said it was on the list but that Marty just didn’t read it; it was under a sub-heading.

Dave Brown asks who is going to make these decisions now that it’s out of our hands. It is up to the Selectboard now. Marty said that is what she is explaining. “We would be coming to the Planning Commission to understand the collective knowledge behind what is in that Plan now, and make sure we understand how it was derived. And knowing what the up front vision and goals are of the Plan (and that is what you lean on and you can’t conflict with that), and we (the Selectboard) are going to take our turn at it. And these things are the major issues that have come up. We may seek outside professionals to help us through it, we don’t know yet. Then we will have several public hearings to see.” John Rosenthal interrupted: “Why several public hearing? Two public hearings.” He thinks it will need only one more re-write and two public hearings.

This caused several people to speak up, that two public hearings are not enough. There are changes made for each of the concerns, re-writes, etc. and there has to be hearings about them every time there is a conflict and the people have to have a chance to see what is changed. Marty agreed that there will be an appropriate number of public hearings to get this right. At the very minimum there will be two, but there may be more than two.

Sylvia Sprigg observed that sometimes it takes towns several years to write a Town Plan, because when there is conflict, that section is rewritten and then they need to get to the next one. That’s the process of doing a Town Plan, she said. But John Rosenthal said he thinks we are ready because we have already had meetings. Sylvia said, “You are talking about individual committee meetings. You have only had one meeting for public input about a Draft of a Town Plan. That’s where you really get a reaction to something that’s down pat. That’s when you have to listen to the folks who are reacting because those are the voters that are going to decide whether it goes through. And you don’t want to go to the expense of having a town vote and having it turned down. You do your compromise in the public hearings and you extend those public hearings. You cannot cut it off in an hour and a half and then say that’s it. You let them hash it out; it’s a very public process, and a long process.”

Marty said, “Nancy, to finish what I was saying earlier, the Planning Commission then takes it and makes sure that what the Selectboard did and wrote is consistent with your goals and visions.”

Jim Donovan added that the Planning Commission then must add its recommendations before the Selectboard has public hearings.

Ed Melby asked for opinions from the members of the Zoning Board of Adjustment on this. Harley Allen spoke. “In my opinion there are some things that need to be changed, yes. I think John Rosenthal has listed most of them. As to re-adopting the old Plan, I think it’s expedient to do it, just in case we run into problems with Act 250 etc. But I think the changes to the Draft Town Plan should keep going on just as it is.”

Jonathan Fisher asked if there is a chance this could be voted on at the primary in September. A Selectboard member in the audience agreed, but Town Clerk Mary Mead shook her head. The voters just don’t turn out for the primary.

Linda Radimer asked, if there are changes contemplated that will impact the conservation issues, would the Selectboard be sure to keep them informed.

Ed Melby said he would urge the Selectboard to take some actions tonight, particularly with the elections coming up next month. He would like to see it moving along although it may be difficult, in case there is a change in the makeup of the Selectboard. Marty asked if the Planning Commission will close the hearing tonight in order to vote on whether to approve recommending the re-adoption of the current Plan.

Jonathan Fisher said he is not clear, since he has not seen the Stitzel letter, as to what the implications are if there is no Town Plan in place. Ed Melby said one implication is that the Town would not be able to apply for any grants and contracts that they might otherwise be eligible for. Another is that for any Act 250 hearings that relate to issues the Town is interested in, the Town could not take part in them.

Jeff McDonald: We could probably live without new grants for a short time, but the Act 250 one is a risk because if a subdivision comes in that may be a factor. The Bylaws and regulations are still in place anyway.

Wade Weathers asked for clarification about how the new Plan could happen, and Ed Melby explained about this. John Rosenthal said the Selectboard is not insisting that the old Plan be re-adopted. But as a Selectboard member he agrees that they should come up with a schedule.

Dean Bloch said they really don’t have to re-adopt the old Plan. The draft of the proposed new Town Plan can be voted on and then could still be worked on via an amendment. That makes three choices. However Marty Illick said she will not even consider doing that. She thinks the Selectboard’s objections are too strong to consider putting the new Plan before the voters.

Jim Donovan moved to close the public hearing. Jeff McDonald seconded the motion and without further discussion the motion passed, 6–0 with one member absent.

During that deliberation:

Jeff McDonald moved that we forward the current Plan to the Selectboard for re-adoption at the March Town Meeting, with the intention that the Selectboard would move forward with the re-draft of the proposed Town Plan for voting in November. Dave Brown seconded the motion. In discussion, Jim Donovan proposed an amendment “based on the understanding that the Selectboard intends to proceed.” Jeff and Dave are okay with that wording. Ed called the vote, and it was approved, 5 for, 1 abstaining and 1 absent.

The revised approval motion is as follows: “The Planning Commission voted to forward the current Town Plan to the Selectboard for re-adoption at the March Town Meeting based on the understanding that the Selectboard intends to proceed with a re-draft of the proposed Town Plan for voting in November.”

7. Enforcement Issues and other matters to discuss with Selectboard: Marty Illick said John Rosenthal and she had met with Al previously. Jeff McDonald moved that we go into executive session to discuss matters of personnel and enforcement issues, and to invite members of the Zoning Board of Adjustment and representatives of the Selectboard to come in as well. Jim Donovan seconded the motion and it was approved, 6–0 with 1 absent. [Members retired to another meeting room.]

9:30 p.m. The meeting re-convened from the executive session.

Ed Melby reported that it was agreed that we will proceed with certain plans for both personnel and enforcement specifically dealing with regulations. It was also announced that the Planning Commission would speak with Louis Cox regarding additional hours of work. We will devote additional time for this at another meeting. Dave Brown said it would be better if Al Moraska was here and we could be together as a group and talk with the Zoning Administrator as a group.

Nancy Sabin said that as a person who happened to be at a Selectboard meeting when a Selectboard member stated that Louis Cox was spending “too much time in enforcement” she feels that statement needs to be clarified. Nancy Sabin continued: “If you are not going to enforce certain violations because of cost of the legal system – whether it be the lawyers or the environmental court, then it should not even be in the Town Plan. Anything that you are not willing to put your money behind to enforce, should not be a law, a rule, or a regulation. It’s really vital that this be an issue and regardless of people’s feelings, we know for a fact that in the past there has been selective enforcement in this town. You need to keep that right up here in front.”

Jeff McDonald said the Planning Commission really hasn’t had much experience in enforcement issues, so we are willing to put ourselves forward, but it may take us some time to work it out. Jim Donovan said that part of our discussion was how to get, on a regular basis or even just what you are saying, non-selective enforcement, and to still get a process that works. Josie Leavitt added that the process is going to take a little while, but we are all going to work on it. Dave Brown said when it’s done it will work for everybody, and that’s what we all want to happen.

Jeff continued. We’ve got to change the way that we’ve been working somewhat. We’ve just been doing sketch plans and site visits, now we’re also doing personnel-related things. Nancy Sabin agreed, “Yes, but it’s been a long time since you’ve had an employee that has gone forward with enforcement.”

Sylvia Sprigg made an observation that other towns are going through the same, similar situation where a new employee in the Zoning Administrator position that is across the board, dealing with the regulations. The new employee is being “over-zealous” according to some folks and then each enforcement subject can point to an incident where another similar situation has gone unnoticed. At some point you have to make a decision that everybody is treated the same and you have to supply the department with the money to do the job.

Ed Melby said we realize that the Planning Commission has that responsibility, and we have not really been handling that part of our responsibility.

Josie Leavitt moved to adjourn the meeting. It was getting on towards 10:00 p.m. Dave Brown seconded the motion and it was unanimous.

Submitted by Nancy H. Lane

APPROVED BY THE CHARLOTTE PLANNING COMMISSION