CHARLOTTE PLANNING COMMISSION

Minutes

August 15, 2002

7:00 p.m.

Town Offices

 

Members Present:     Jeff McDonald, Chair

Jim Donovan

Gene Diou

Josie Leavitt

Members Absent:      Gordon Troy

Al Moraska

Martha Perkins

Dave Brown

Officials Present:       Dean Bloch, Planner

 

Jeff McDonald called the meeting to order at 7:15 p.m.  

 

Deliberation on Hinsdale informal Site Plan Review.    Mr. McDonald said that there had been two hearings on the Hinsdale proposal for their farm development.  He also said that the Commission does not have a formal application process, and cannot issue a decision because they don’t have jurisdiction to do so.  He asked Mr. Hinsdale if the application had been deemed completed by the commissioner, to which Mr. Hinsdale replied, “no.”  Eleanor Russell reported that the Select Board wanted to know if the Planning Commission had an opinion on one site or another (referring to the original site, and the newer proposed site to the north).   Ms. Leavitt said that the Planning Commission would need to deliberate and make a decision with everybody present and, after discussion, it was decided that the September 5th meeting of this commission would begin at 6:00 p.m. and this matter would be on the agenda for 6:00 –7:15 p.m. and, if further time was needed, it would go back into deliberations after agenda items had been cleared.  

 

Minutes – July 18, August 1.     It was decided that, because there were not enough members present to accept the minutes of these meetings, acceptance of the minutes would be moved to the agenda for the next meeting of the Planning Commission. 

 

Procedural Discussion

Discussion began amongst the commission about site plan procedure.  There are two issues that the Commission has to address.  1)  Site plan approval.   2)  Telecommunications tower site plan approval.   There is a general setback rule for site plan approval for a structure, but it doesn’t apply to towers, where there is a larger setback as opposed to say, a garage.    It’s been a problem because the Commission has had a conflict with its regulation, i.e. first, you will get zoning approval, and site plan approval, but intended differently – did jointly with first 2 applications, but Zoning Board still deliberating on the first one and we’re getting ourselves ahead.   Discussion centered on adopting a policy on this issue.  Mr. Donovan said that he would like to have zoning approval and site plan approval jointly and a lot will be decided depending on what the Zoning Board decides on the first application.   If it is approved, joint hearings would be scheduled, but if we don’t wait or schedule joint hearings, there would be no sense in it if they’re going to deny it.   There was a discussion about the urgency of the Zoning Board because a site plan has to be decided within sixty (60) days of the opening of the hearing. 

 

Mr. McDonald suggested that, in future site plan applications, the Planning Commission adopt a procedure that it does not accept further applications until the applicant(s) received conditional use from the Zoning Board.  

 

Mr. Donovan moved to create a policy for the Planning Commission to not accept applications for site plan review under Chapter IX and Section 9.6.2 of the Town of Charlotte Zoning Bylaws until a conditional use permit and/or variance has been obtained from the Zoning Board as provided in the Bylaws.  Ms. Leavitt seconded the motion.   After discussion, everyone voted in favor and the MOTION WAS PASSED.

 

Nextel WIP Lease Corps (applicant), James and Helen Brown (property owner); Site Plan Review for the installation of 12 PCS antennas and associated equipment on a modified farm silo located at 1783 Greenbush Road in the Rural District.  Steven Elsberee, a representative from Nextel Partners, addressed the Planning Commission.   He explained that the proposed telecommunications tower would cover service between the Shelburne site at the water tank and a similar silo location in the town of Ferrisburgh on Dakin Road.   Mr. Donovan expressed concern over the 1,500 feet from a residence rule, because he lives near the proposed site.  Mr. Elsberee looked at the map and it was decided that Mr. Donovan lived outside of the 1,500 feet radius and was therefore able to participate in discussions and deliberations on this matter.  Mr. Hinsdale asked why Mr. Donovan would have to disqualify himself.  Mr. Donovan explained that it is one of the criteria that is used (the 1,500 feet radius set back provision in the Bylaws) and technically he would be one of the affected parties and may therefore have a conflict of interest. 

 

Mr. Elsberee continued his presentation showing how he is proposing the access drive off of Greenbush Road adjacent to Mr. Brown’s garage using a map and showing pictures of Brown’s garage. The telecommunications shelter would be at the base of the silo and coax cables and fixtures would be run through the barn into the interior of the silo and antennas would be mounted on a 15-foot increase on the existing silo.   Mr. Donovan asked for an explanation of the increase in height of the existing silo.  Mr. Elsberee responded by saying that presently the cap of the silo is 45 feet and they are proposing an increase to 62 feet.  

 

Mr. Hinsdale asked for clarification of where this property was located, specifically in relation to the underpass.  Ms. Leavitt explained that it is across from the purple house, up a little from the underpass.   Eleanor Russell asked if it was close to the park and it was noted that it is within 1500 feet of the park.  

 

Mr. Elsberee continued his presentation.  The proposed equipment shelter is going to be a cedar style barn type structure.  They will mount 12 panel antennas – Richmond has similar installation – photos in packet.  There will be a connection to power at the site.   They are proposing screening the front entrance from across the street by using spruce trees along the driveway entrance.    The site goes down the hill, so the equipment shelter will be out of view from Greenbush Road traffic.     Mr. Diau asked how Nextel proposed the addition of the silo height, to which Mr. Elsberee responded that they use tile block with a band around them and there is also a reinforcement of foundation of the silo proposed in the plan.    Mr. McDonald inquired as to why 12 panels were needed.  Mr. Elsberee explained that the technology capacity for a Bell system is different than a PCS system.   Nextel works in 800 megahertz frequency versus PCS, which are in the 1900 range.  The radio equipment is similar but different, i.e. all the systems are digital, but each sector has a transmit antenna and then 3 receiving antennas.     Mr. McDonald asked about a balloon test to examine the height.  Mr. Donovan asked Mr. Bloch about interpretation.   Mr. Bloch responded by saying that the access road will be a typical driveway section.  Mr. Donovan asked about material to be used for the access road.  Mr. Elsberee said that it would be a gravel/stone driveway.   Mr. Bloch asked Mr. Elsberee to clarify the separate curb cut from the existing driveway.  Mr. Elsberee said that it was the same curb cut but widened a little bit.  The total width of the driveway is 10 feet.  Mr. Diau asked about traffic, and Mr. Elsberee responded by saying that, post-construction, a technician will be coming there once or twice a month.   Mr. Donovan asked why a new driveway was necessary and the existing one was not sufficient.  Mr. Elsberee said that to get to the location, they would have to build a driveway from the existing driveway due south from the west edge of the barn or make a curb cut.  There is a treed area they were trying to preserve.   Mr. Donovan would like more information on that, saying that wrapping around the tree mass would make more sense and would help eliminate the need for more trees because they would create a site problem for the driveway eventually.   Mr. McDonald inquired as to whether the silo is being currently used, to which Mr. Elsberee replied, “no.”

 

Mr. Donovan brought up the issue of the regulation stating that utilities need to be underground and the proposed line from the shed to the silo is a utility and it would need to go underground and he asked if that would be a problem.  He also brought up the issue of the fence around it. A stockade fence is proposed with a metal gate.   Mr. Bloch asked if the proposed ventilation will create much noise, to which Mr. Elsberee replied that there are air conditioners which do not run continuously, but they do create some noise.    It was suggested maybe rotating the building so that the air conditioners faced east and that would also eliminate fencing.   Mr. Elsberee said that he would have to take this suggestion to his boss.     Mr. McDonald asked the public if they had any questions.  Mr. Elsberee said that he would provide a letter which states that Nextel will be abiding by the 12 foot shelter rule.    Mr. Donovan asked how much clear space is needed inside the shelter.  Mr. Elsberee said that the racks inside are 7 feet tall and the utility cable runs along the top of that so the shelter interior is 9 feet high.

 

Sylvia Knight asked if somebody had gauged the distance from the wildlife park.

Mr. Donovan responded by saying that it is further than 1,500 feet from the wildlife park.

 

Pete Rosenfeld had comments and questions.  First, he said that since a 2-story building will be added on top of the silo, a balloon test is mandatory because it is an existing structure.  It will cause lots of attention, but it is fine.   Mr. McDonald will arrange for that on the site visit.  Mr. Elsberee agreed.  Mr. Rosenfeld next expressed that the application was in violation of the setback requirement.    The setback from the Town property line is only 155 feet and the setback to the Shirley Reed property is only 160 feet and the setback to the Jacques Bostwer property is only 272 feet and the ordinance refers to the property lines of the subject property, but suspect that it was designed to protect adjacent property owners and if you go across town right-of-way to people who live across the street, you have a 216 foot from Hanange and 216 from Larid property, so at the very minimum, there is noncompliance with 3 property lines, and in reality, in violation of 5 property lines.    How can you accept something that is so badly out of joint with what ordinance calls for, he inquired.

 

Mr. McDonald thanked him for his comments and questions.  He read the ordinance requirement.   In the application, they propose a 155 feet setback. A 300 foot setback is required.  Mr. Donovan said the application only gives the front setback, but said the property to the south is roughly the same as the front setback.  

 

Mr. Hinsdale inquired what the 1500 feet rule was and is it related to health?

Mr. Donovan answered by saying that he believes it is.  Eleanor Russell said that it is vague, and Mr. Donovan said that since it is not part of the site plan, the Planning Commission does not deal with it.

 

Mr. Donovan asked if the Planning Commission decides that this can get approval, does it get approved based on getting a variance?  Mr. Bloch said “yes.”   Mr. Elsberee said that he is meeting next Wednesday with the Zoning Board to discuss variances.   Mr. Bloch said that the Planning Commission could make the approval contingent depending on the applicant getting the variance.  

 

Mr. McDonald said that they needed to get the variance first before even coming to the Planning Commission, i.e. normal procedure is to have sketch plan first and then discuss and then direct them to get variance and then come back.   Mr. Donovan asked if we could leave our hearing open until information is available or should we continue reviewing it?  Mr. Bloch asked Mr. Elsberee if the Zoning Board had performed a balloon test, to which he responded, “no.”   Mr. McDonald said that the Commission could rule on that and direct Mr. Elsberee to go back and get the variance.   Ms. Leavitt suggested that they obtain the variance first.  

 

After discussion, it was decided that this issue will be continued until the September 19th meeting with a site visit at 6:00 p.m.  Four issues will be discussed then:  1) fence need, 2) putting utilities underground, 3) rotating building, and 4) driveway access.

 

Pete Rosenfeld commented on towers generally.   He said that it seemed to him that the Planning Commission will be embroiled in tower issues.  He suggested that perhaps the Planning Commission address a letter to the Select Board to consider finding a site and get together with UVM (Pease Mountain or Mount Philo) and get away from sites such as this one in question.  He would like to see a good site selection in the area and let everyone use it.

 

Mr. McDonald asked Mr. Elsberee about interference.  Mr. Elsberee said that all the companies have locations that they have co-located on.  He explained that they have to be on different vertical levels and PCS and Nextel don’t have any interference issues of being on the same vertical plane; however, Rural Cellular One and Cingular can’t share.  Nextel and Verizon also can’t be on the same site.

 

NORMAN BEAN:  SKETCH PLAN REVIEW FOR A 2-LOT SUBDIVISION LOCATED ON HINESBURG ROAD IN THE RURAL DISTRICT.

 

Mr. Norman Bean and his granddaughter, Vicky Martin, addressed the Commission asking for approval of a proposed subdivision plan.  He would like to take 5 acres of his farm land.  He explained that there has been a mobile home on it since 1979 and it had been previously been lived in, although it is presently vacant.   This property is on Hinesburg Road, one mile east of Philo four corners.

 

Mr. Donovan inquired if there was any way that Mr. Bean could wait on this subdivision due to the fact that within the next year the zoning regulations would be revised to that you can leave that as a farm, so wouldn’t have to pull out as much.   He further stated that right now a PRD and a topo, etc. would have to be done and it would cost a lot of money, which would be unnecessary.  Mr. McDonald explained that we are at sketch plan so we can classify if it would be a major or minor subdivision.   Therefore, the only action to take currently is to classify it and schedule a site visit.

 

Ms. Martin stated that Mr. Bean’s intention is that he is selling his farm and he wanted to separate the land before the sale occurred and wanted to keep a piece of land for him to live on.  Sylvia Sprig asked if there was septic capacity on site, to which Ms. Martin said that yes, there is an existing house.  Mr. Hinsdale expressed his opinion that it looked like a very logical thing to do and he supports it.  Mr. McDonald said that there is no previous subdivision, except for giving Ms. Martin an acre and it was a pre-existing lot and they adjusted the boundary. 

 

Mr. Donovan moved to classify this project as a minor subdivision.  Mr. McDonald said that it calls for one hearing.  Mr. Donovan said that he thinks that the Planning Commission should have a site visit to make sure that everyone physically views the land.   

 

Mr. Bloch asked about the septic (Section 13) and whether or not there are any drawings for existing septic.   Mr. Bean replied that he doesn’t have any septic drawings.  Mr. Donovan directed him to locate the septic tank and figure out where the field is, so that the Planning Commission ensures that it is 100 feet from the septic area to the property line.  Mr. McDonald instructed Mr. Bean and Ms. Martin to investigate the septic requirements from the State.    There was a discussion on the history of the septic on the property, following which it was directed that Mr. Bloch would arrange with Spencer Harris, the town consultant, to meet with Mr. Bean and Ms. Martin to review this situation and sign off on the septic. 

 

Mr. Bloch brought up the issue of possibly doing a PRD.   Following discussion of the regulations and requirements, Mr. Donovan asked the applicants if they would be interested in pursuing this and explained that if they did, they would not be limited with amount of acreage.  He said that the only thing that they would be obligated to is that if they further subdivided the land in the future, they would need to preserve the land as open space (i.e. if you have 3 acres per lot and 2 of open space, you would need to preserve the 2 of open space).   Mr. Bloch asked if the applicants would prefer open space designated on that lot or reducing the total density and Mr. Donovan said that reducing the total density if it was ever subdivided in the future, so that the floating 2 acres is not tied down to any specific spot until such time as there is a further subdivision. 

 

Ms. Leavitt seconded Mr. Donovan’s motion to classify this project as a minor subdivision.  All were in favor and the MOTION WAS PASSED.

 

 

QUARTER MILE ROAD ASSOCIATION: DISCUSSION OF ESCROW ACCOUNT FOR REPAIR OF COMMUNITY WASTEWATER DISPOSAL SYSTEM.

 

Mr. McDonald asked Mr. Bill Root to explain the background of this project.  Mr. Root said that in 1994, when QMRA and Edie Crawford created a subdivision, an escrow account was created for maintenance.  It was a logistical administrative burden for the town to hand out their interest money every year.  There is wording in the subdivision documents and there were agreements made for the subdivision that the town has a right to step in and put liens on property to covering costs of repairs if homeowners don’t and $3,000 is not much money to have these repairs done, so they feel the escrow account serves no purpose now and would like their money back.

 

The original request went to the Select Board and they directed it to the Planning Commission for recommendation back to the Select Board.   Mr. McDonald noted that the agreement runs with the land and was reflected in the purchase price and the liability and assets go with the property.  Mr. McDonald asked for a motion that the Planning Commission recommends to the Select Board that the escrow account be dissolved.   Mr. Donovan made the motion and Ms. Leavitt seconded.  Eleanor Russell asked if this is the only agreement of this type that the town has?  Mr. McDonald said that it is the only one that has an escrow account.   All were in favor and the MOTION WAS PASSED.  Mr. Bloch will write the recommendation letter to the Select Board.

 

GREENWOOD AMERICA:  DISCUSSION OF DEVELOPMENT OPTIONS ON FERRY ROAD IN THE INDUSTRIAL AND RURAL DISTRICTS.

 

Mel Hawley and David Raphael addressed the commission and the meeting.   Mr. Raphael began the presentation to the Planning Commission utilizing maps of various proposed designs of this project.   He addressed Mr. Bloch’s concerns stating that Greenwood America does want this project to be walkable and a connecting part of the village.   He showed a map that depicted the site to be within 1/3 of a mile to a train station, ½ mile to the village center and less than a mile away to an unofficial park and ride.   In terms of residential, he stated that it is 1) well protected in all directions in terms of impact by increasing density, impact to neighbors is minimal and 2) taking advantage of a site that development projects would shy away from because of railroad tracks, but with train station in walking distance, and 3) they would put in walkways and bring them to Ferry Road. 

 

He said that they have a genuine effort to recognize the town’s efforts for mixed use.  There are 48 acres to work with and 14 are available because of wetlands.  He refuted that it is not sprawl; buildings are 10 –15 feet apart.    They stay away from vegetation and woodlands and use them for buffering. 

 

Mr. McDonald stated the concern and opinion that there was a lot of pavement in the proposed plans and that it depicted a conventional suburbia setting and that the housing was too close to the railroad.   Mr. Raphael said that the flip side is to have to push houses closer and impact the wetlands.  Each scheme shows a 50’ buffer to the wetlands.   Mr. McDonald noted the issue of fire and safety concerns in relation to small lanes and alleys, as well as plowing in the winter.  Mr. Donovan said to perhaps go for more density, more units around the green, put the roadway closer to the railroad and make the assumption that they would be able to get more density in the future as well, and leave space for future development.

 

Sylvia Sprig asked about the issue of train whistles and ensuring that heavy, good panes of glass were used as well as thick walls to cut down on the influx of sound at night.   She also expressed concern of the trails and their proximity to the railroad.  Mr. Holly reported that, within the next few weeks, they would be requesting that the Select Board determine the location of trails.

 

Mr. Donovan stated that he likes Option A, but suggested that they move the residences north, combine driveways, put more units around the green and move the green further south to increase density.  He also suggested eliminating the last cul-de-sac, which would provide space for further density in the future.

 

Mr. Hinsdale said that he did not know Greenwood America.  Mr. Hawley explained that it is a limited liability partnership of Bill Lockwood and Rita Alford and owns the Creamery property, and owns the distribution center, and farmhouse and barn property to the west of Charles Kellner’s property, as well as owning an approved 3-lot PRD on Lake Road.  The farmhouse and barn property holds all of the land – 58.08 acres - and the plan would be to keep 13 acres with the farmhouse and barn and the balance of the property would be developed.  Mr. Hawley works for Country Home Products, which is also owned by Greenwood America.   Mr. Raphael is a consultant from Landworks.  Mr. Hinsdale asked who managed the rentals.  Mr. Holly answered that he does on behalf of the owners.  Mr. Hinsdale asked if it was a long-term arrangement for the rentals, to which Mr. Holly answered that the rentals that they have could be as much as a single office in the distribution center and that they are varied.

 

Debbie Ramsdale asked how many units there were.  Mr. Raphael said 15. She asked how many could they have.   Mr. Raphael said that, if they went to solely elderly housing, there is a provision in the zoning regulations that allow 10 units per each 5 acres of property.  She asked if they had thought about affordable housing.  Mr. Raphael said yes and that increasing density would allow affordable housing to be supportable, but right now, building it is a real challenge without subsidies.

  

Ms. Ramsdale suggested that they may check with Habitat for Humanity, to which Mr. Raphael responded by saying that they have considered these ideas and would make them work with another partner or subsidy or support but otherwise it would be too difficult to do affordable housing. 

Mr. Hinsdale asked if they intended to build this out themselves and Mr. Hawley said that it was still to be determined. 

 

 

Mr. Hinsdale asked about selling lots and Mr. Hawley said that they are not set up for separate lots right now and that the drawings are pre-set.

Mr. Hinsdale asked if there was a possibility of putting a hook in the agreement providing that they would like in the future to shift common land and go dense somewhere else.   Mr. Bloch answered by saying that if it was common land owned by unit owners, but if retained by landowner, with an agreement similar to open space, an agreement with a provision that if zoning changes, they could come back to the Planning Commission, but would need to work out with attorneys.

 

Mr. Bloch asked about the height and assumed that the buildings would be one-story.  Mr. Hawley said yes.

Sylvia Sprig asked what the source of water would be. Mr. Hawley said that they have had some geological studying done and they would have to drill a well, for which they have a location and they would have to ensure that it would serve the proposed number of units.

Ms. Sprig asked if it the pond was natural, to which Mr. Hawley answered that no, the pond was constructed for fire protection purposes for the distribution center.   

 

Ms. Sprig asked if they could avoid running the roads through the woods and try to skirt them gently so they are not fractured?  She suggested that, if you have an area that is wooded, to keep it intact, rather than cutting it up.

Mr. Raphael said that was an important notion to consider.  Not all woods are created equal and the woods on the east lot are mostly pioneer and young poplars, which are transitioned into something else, and there is already a road through it so it is already divided.  But really high quality woods are certainly going to be left intact. 

Ms. Sprig asked what is the distance of wetland?

Mr. Raphael said that it has all been delineated (100 foot buffer).

Ms. Sprig said that it sounded good and thanked them.

 

VILLAGE PLAN -  UPDATE

 

Mr. Donovan reported that the conclusions are the same as the report from a year and a half ago, but the organization of the report is different.  He tried to make it capture more of the process and the results that came out of the process and changed it around to talk about provisions and goals of the village.  He moved a lot of things in the appendix, described southeast quadrant, northeast quadrant, did not describe northwest and southwest and noted that he needs to add those in.   He talked about neighborhoods and led into different ideas for implementation, which he put all in one area. Part 8 near the end has been edited.   He said that he received a few comments from Gordon and Al and they liked it much better.   Ms. Russell asked if there was a timeframe for completion, to which Mr. Donovan said that he would be on vacation in the next two weeks.  After discussion, however, it was decided that Mr. Donovan will arrange for the consultant from Terrence Boyle & Associates (Mike) to send the disc of drawings to Mr. Bloch for Mr. Bloch to work on in Mr. Donovan’s absence.

 

Mr. McDonald set a goal of September 19th to have a draft ready for the public.

 

OTHER BUSINESS

 

Ms. Russell said that Mr. Hinsdale asked the Select Board to throw up/discontinue the Town’s right-of-way which runs on his property.  The Select Board wanted guidance on the overall picture of trails, etc.  In general, the Town is not advised to give up rights-of-way or trails or roads, but would consider an alternative route, but asks for input from the Planning Commission.

 

Mr. Hinsdale said that the last three have been thrown up.  

 

Ms. Russell said that some Select Board members thought that that was a serious mistake. 

 

Mr. Bloch said that maybe there was an alternative to that location. Mr. Donovan said that, even if there was an alternate location, retaining an easement, trail or full road would be his recommendation, but wanted more discussion as a group.

Ms. Russell said that she wanted to ensure that it would be put on the Planning Commission’s agenda for its next meeting, to which she was told it would be. 

 

ADJOURN

 

Motion was made to adjourn.  It was seconded.  All were in favor and THE MEETING WAS ADJOURNED AT 9:50 p.m.