CHARLOTTE PLANNING COMMISSION

7:00 P.M., THURSDAY, SEPTEMBER 2, 1999

TOWN OFFICES, 425-3533 



Members
Present:

Chairman Al
Moraska

Ed Melby

Jim Donovan

Dave Brown 

David Woolf

Jeff McDonald




Members
Absent:

Josie Leavitt



Officials
Present:

Planner Dean
Bloch




Guests Signed
in:

Linda Hamilton

David Carpenter

Karl W. Neuse

Steve Libby

John Pitrowiski

Mary Illick

Linda Radimer

Leta Finch

Stephen C.
Brooks




1. Gary and Mary Thibault - continuation of Sketch Plan Review: (At 6 p.m. members had
gone on a site visit to the Thibault property.) A summary of the findings of the site visit are as
follows: The house site is fine, the site distance lines are tighter to the house, and there has to be
100' setback of septic from the house. There was some discussion of whether they needed another
survey of the entire property and they do not.

The site visit determination has been done and Al Moraska moved to classify the Gary and
Mary Thibault application as a Minor Subdivision. Ed Melby seconded the motion and it was
approved, 6-0 with one member absent. 

2. General Business: (Jim Donovan had to leave so this discussion was moved up.) Jim asked if
members had sent in comments about the State of Vermont's Wetland application for the train
station. The Planning Commission's comments are due on September 9, 1999. There is a
requirement that the Charlotte Planning Commission receive the application, so what action is
needed? The Commission is supposed to be notified and has to be made aware of it. The official
copy goes to the Town Clerk. 

Jeff McDonald said they submitted an application of what they propose to do. If that changes, they
would need to amend their C.U.D. Anything can change it and need to amend it. They need to at
least apply for the C.U.D. with the condition of our approval. Al said they do have a letter with
things they should be looking at.

Jim Donovan asked that the latest copy of that letter be FAXed to him, and anyone who has any
concerns are asked to do the same, being careful just to give concerns, but not to pre-judge. (Then
Jim left for another appt.)

3. William Ryerson and Leta Finch, Dorset Street Extension - Final Plat Hearing for 2-Lot
Subdivision: John Pitrowiski from Trudell Consulting Engineers, appeared in place of Bill Ryerson,
along with Leta Finch. There was a Sketch Plan Review a month ago and the project was declared
a Minor Subdivision. He said there was supposed to be an informal site walk. There are some
changes to the survey plat, and one recommendation was to have some restrictions on the size of
the building envelope. This plat is showing two house sites back in the meadow. John said they had
added some restricted building envelopes and that the clear intent is that the homes be in the back
meadow. He conceded that there wasn't an easement from Lot 2 to Lot 1, so he added an
easement to the leach field.

There had been some concern about the steepness of the farm road and John suggested that they
would look at adjusting that area of the farm road but the applicants do not want to have any
different driveway. He said there is a telephone pole nearby and he assumes the utilities would run
the lines on this easement as it is a requirement that the lines be run underground. 

Linda Hamilton questioned the location, but Dave Brown noted that wildlife cross in the ravine and
that the location they were suggesting should be alright. Al Moraska recommended that this be
clarified by the engineer. John Pitrowiski said this property was originally 40 acres from Roland
Aube. They had met with the Zoning Administrator at the time, George Doty, who with John did the
test pits. They found that it was the typical Vergennes clay soil with topsoil. They deemed the entire
field to be similar in soil content. Because it had been used for agricultural purposes there was a
decent amount of topsoil that perked, but once you got below the topsoil, he said, there was the
clay. Therefore they designed a large mound system for a 4-bedroom home and that approval has
been renewed each year since.

George Doty went to Alaska, and there was some confusion over this approval. Then in the interim
Leta's purchase occurred, and it was promised that this system was approved, but there was some
question of that because George had already left and there were no clear records on it. Eventually
George came back and he documented that this was certified, so the Town agreed to honor it, but
in the negotiations that occurred over time, Champlain Consulting Engineers were hired to
investigate an area on a slope and found some slightly better soils. They put in a curtain drain and
they designed a State-complying system for three bedrooms instead of four. He is convinced they
made a mistake, so the compromise was that this home would use this primary mound-type system
on the slope (with the better soils) and use the backup system as the original system designed by
George.

John contacted Champlain Consulting Engineers and asked them to correct that mistake but they
were too busy, so he (John) redesigned this using their information and submitted it to Charlie
Burnham. He said he knew that Leta Finch and William Ryerson wanted to subdivide this into two
lots, so he presented that to Charlie Burnham and he actually reviewed the plans that are submitted
today. He put a curtain drain around the system and tested that for four months, which Spencer
Harris has reviewed and approved. This is in compliance with State performance regulations. At the
time Spencer approved this John presented this to Charlie and he approved the system for both lots
even though they had not been to the Planning Commission yet. When he redesigned for four
bedrooms, John said, he planned an 840 gallon per day system (an oversized design in the event it
is ever necessary). He said he is convinced that if the backup system needs to be used they will
install the curtain drain there as well.

For the backup system he and Dean discussed this in detail. John had also discussed this with
Charlie Burnham before they went to any detailed designed plans, and he had given his support.
John stated that with the curtain drain they could reduce the water table in this type of soil.

Dave Carpenter, an abutting neighbor, asked to speak. He said the center of that field is very wet in
the spring, and the wildlife do use that field. With one driveway for two homes it is a site distance
hazard, he said. He said that is probably the worst corner on Dorset Street because the road jogs
right there. John disagreed, because he didn't feel there was not enough site distance. Leta said she
remembers measuring the site distance, and feels this won't pose a problem. She does not want to
move the driveway although she is willing to slightly redirect the area of the drive that is the most
steep. She wants to keep the location in order to preserve the natural area below it.

John questioned what the speed limit is on that road. Because it has not been determined yet, it
remains at 50 mph. To the south, the site distance is believed to be 500', but to the north it is still
unclear. He believes it is around 250' but has agreed to measure the distance. There is a school bus
safety issue, and there have been instances of some folks who have gone into a ditch near the
corner, said Carpenter. John will measure this and submit these records.

Mr. Carpenter also wanted to be sure there were perimeter drains for the house to prevent
diversion of water to his property. But Jeff said that would be illegal anyway, to divert water in that
way so this commission did not have to specify that compliance with existing law.

Al Moraska moved to continue the hearing to September 16, 1999. Jeff McDonald seconded
the motion and it was approved, 5-0 with two members absent. 

4. Chittenden County Regional Plan (discussion): Dean Bloch said the deadline for comment
on the Regional Plan has been extended for 60 days, to November 16, 1999. The presenter has
asked to have the meeting at 6:00 p.m. at the next meeting of September 16, 1999. 

Town Plan: The week of the 23rd of September Al will be out of town, when they plan to have a
public hearing. Eric Fellinger from Chittenden County Regional Planning has offered to facilitate
some meetings. He has seen a lot of town plans. Dean will contact him.

Dean said they need to get some of the maps; the base map should include some private roads that
have been built since 1995. Shirley Allen said they need to re-do the agricultural district map
because her farm was not included, as well as several other farms. Linda said the inventory hasn't
been ready yet and this is all in draft form. She said the Conservation Commission has been
working with a mapper and they need to know as soon as possible what revisions will be needed.

Al said they will postpone discussion of the Regional Plan until September 16th. Linda said the
Conservation Commission has material for the wildlife habitat maps which should be completed next
week or at least by the 23rd. Jeff suggested she submit copies of this at the hearing, and incorporate
comments and make modifications if necessary. Al said if they are available sooner they would
welcome the chance to go over these.

5. General Business: Burns property bond issue: Al Moraska said he felt it would be good if
the Planning Commission weighed in on their feelings, for or against this bond issue. Marty Illick
said they are asking Town money just to acquire the property. This is not just the 50 acre parcel,
she said. We can only afford from Greenbush Road to Route 7, and their purpose is to have the
property for the very primary need for the town to have the land in the event they can proceed
when they need to do it, to plan for future septic relief. The primary benefit is proximity to the town
center, village, and to future senior housing and septic capacity. If they are planning for the next 10
years or more, it would be sad to see the land fall into the wrong hands.

Dave Brown agreed that septic is becoming a priority. It is our responsibility to clean up the sewer
problem in the village, because some of the older homes through no fault of their own, are having
failed systems. If there is any way that they can procure the land even though there is no actual
septic plan yet.

Marty Illick asked that some members of the Planning Commission be present for the public hearing
that they could help with. Perhaps they can field questions that have some answers in the draft of the
Town Plan. The hearing is at 7:00 p.m. on Tuesday, September 7, 1999. Dean was asked to get a
member out to Planning Commission members asking them to come in. Al Moraska moved that
the Planning Commission accepts and approves the bond issue for the purchase of the
Burns property as a strategic action on the part of the Town to further its future
development, as presented by the Selectboard. Ed Melby seconded the motion and it was
approved, 5-0 with two members absent.

..........

This was not on the agenda, but Stephen C. Brooks wanted to ask what had occurred regarding
the petition to change the zoning of the industrial zone on Route 7. He referred to some statutes and
pursued questions of just when a hearing would be held, but Chairman Al Moraska reiterated the
urgency of continuing with the ongoing work of the Town Plan.

..........

Ed Melby read a letter from Kit Perkins, who said she has been hired as Vice President for New
Ecology, Inc., of Boston, Mass. and has just finalized her employment. They a non-profit
organization that provides legal and consultant support to municipalities and businesses to plan and
execute sustained environmentally responsible developmental strategies throughout New England.
She is very excited about this new job and wishes the Town of Charlotte well in the Town Plan
updates.

Ed said the Charlotte News would like to see if someone can send a news item such as a blurb on
the general things discussed at the meeting, but not actually the Minutes. He would look at any news
someone FAXes to him and edit as necessary. 

6. Grant applications, etc.: Dean Bloch talked a "Feasibility Study" which is a loan rather than a
grant, but this has to have a start at paying it back in 5 years. If you don't use it you start paying it
back.

7. A. Johnson Company, Lewis Creek Road - Re-approval Hearing for Final Plat
Application for 3-Lot Subdivision: Attorney Neuse and Steve Libby brought the plans to the
table. Atty. Neuse explained that the required buffer strips along the stream had not been drawn,
and they felt that until their agreement with the town was in place, they could not submit the mylar as
it wouldn't be an accurate representation of the property. Also they included a statement in a
decision of the State of Vermont Environmental Court decision, Docket No. 179-10-98VTec
which added a statement to their description of clearcutting:

"If you cut everything down it is clear cutting. If you leave something, it's not clear cutting." However
the other wording in Paragraph 6 of the conditions, still stands regarding the size of the trees that
can be cut down in the buffer zone. 

The other change in this decision deletes #8 of the conditions and replaces it with the following:

"Lot #3 shall be subject to the timber cutting standards of the existing U.S.D.A. Forest Service
Silvicultural Guide as specified in Purchase and Sale Contract with the Town of Charlotte.
(Declaration of Restrictive Covenants) except the 5-acre homestead area of said lot."

Steve Libby said it appears they will be able to find on-site septic for the three lots, but they are not
abandoning the earlier approved area down below until they know for sure.

Atty. Neuse said after the Environmental Court decision on these two points they decided not to
pursue the full appeal of the conditions of approval. He is asking additional time for presentation of
the mylar.

Al Moraska moved to reaffirm the approval given to the A. Johnson subdivision in
accordance with the judgement order written by the State of Vermont Environmental
Court, Docket 197-10-98Vtec. Ed Melby seconded the motion and it was approved, 5-0 with 2
members absent.

8. Minutes for August 19, 1999: Dean Bloch and Al Moraska had some corrections in wording.
Al Moraska moved to approve the Minutes of August 19, 1999 with corrections. Ed Melby
seconded the motion and it was approved, 4-0 with one member abstaining and 2 members absent
(Jim Donovan had to leave before this item).

Submitted by Nancy Lane





APPROVED BY THE CHARLOTTE PLANNING COMMISSION