CHARLOTTE PLANNING COMMISSION

7:00 P.M., OCTOBER 6, 1998

TOWN OFFICES

425-3533

Members Present:Chairman Al Moraska

Ed Melby

David Allen
Jeff McDonald

Dave Brown

Planner Charlie Burnham

Members Absent:Jim Donovan

Guests Signed In:Ceal Moran

Janet Yantachka

Eric Van Vlandren

Holly Fournier

Stuart J. Morrow

Tony Perry

Susan PerryMary Beth Freeman

Sandy Mayo

Sue Patnaude

John Patnaude

Nancy P. Sabin

Fire Chief Chris Davis

Michael I Yantachka

1. General Business: Minutes for September 22, 1998 were discussed. Al questioned the wording of an item

that will be clarified. Mary Beth Freeman had some questions about the Zoning Regulations that were referred to

which were shown to be correct, regarding "Antennas and Windmills," on page 24 of the Zoning Regulations.

Al Moraska moved to approve the minutes with the correction of the wording of his observation, David

Allen seconded the motion and it was approved, 5–0 with one member absent.

2. Town Planner Charlie Burnham: Regarding Tower Moratorium: Charlie reported that he had written a

report to the Charlotte News (of which he provided copies to the Planning Commission), where he solicits input

from townspeople on the tower issues. The article will appear in Thursday's paper and the issue will be on the

October 20th agenda.

The letter that Mary Beth Freeman wrote was received and dated September 22, 1998, too late for scheduling

a hearing for tonight.

Charlie reported that State of Vermont Act 616 enabled towns to issue a 6–month moratorium, only if they

have already started the process of changing their Town Plan. The process will start by taking public testimony

before actually changing the regulations. No one can simply adopt this moratorium. Since we haven't already

started this process of revising the town plan, we cannot impose a moratorium.

Chapter 117, Title 144 in 1997, referred to in a legal motion from the Selectboard, this can be done only if

the Planning Commission has begun a process. Charlie has recently attended a regional planning meeting on this

subject.

Dave Brown asked if, at that meeting was it related how many towns in Vermont have such a moratorium?

As of last Friday, Charlie said, no towns in Chittenden County had this, but around Vermont there may be

approximately 20 although he can investigate the exact number for the Planning Commission. Morrisville is one

town that has a new plan, and Charlotte does have something in their Zoning Regulations already. There is a

guide furnished by the Vermont League of Cities & Towns. What we have now is the moratorium that is good

until July 1, 1999. Mary Beth Freeman asked, Do we need to amend the Town Plan?

Sandy Mayo questioned the Planning Commissioner, When the first letter of information from Mary Beth

Freeman, letters to the Zoning Board and to their attorney, weren't there four requests starting in 1997, she

asked?

Charlie said, first, the issue couldn't be on this agenda; it is awkward without having input from the rest of

the town. Second, with a moratorium if we have it or not, do we support the spirit of what telecommunications is

involved with. This would have an effect when we work on the Town Plan.

Mary Beth Freeman asked why they couldn't just work on this tonight. Chairman Al Moraska said no, this

will happen in two weeks, but input will be received beginning next week from all sides of the issue. The Select-

board has asked for this.

Dave Brown added, If we have the input, it's the beginning of the process.

Mary Beth Freeman commented on the statute. She said the Selectboard is looking for a recommendation

from the Planning Commission — an opinion.

3. Continuation of Anthony Perry's (556 Ethan Allen Highway) Preliminary Plat Review for a Subdivision

Modification and two new lots in a Major Subdivision: Stuart Morrow said that nearly everyone present on the

Planning Commission had gone on the Site Visit last Saturday morning. Charlie reported that Mike Yantachka

was in earlier, and would come back to this meeting from another meeting he had to attend. (This part of the

agenda started early.)

Stuart said the building envelope of Lot 4 has been moved further to the west. The Open Space Agreement

includes more land than he had shown at the last meeting, and is more in keeping with the original arrangement

for the subdivision: it was 68.7 acres, now is 68.4 acres.

The building envelope for Lot 4 was 100' x 100', and is now 120' x 90'. He showed a large map of the project

as is now proposed, with the open space colored in yellow. All of the audience came up to view it, and John

Patnaude offered an opinion that with agricultural land, there could be large farm buildings or even housing for

farm help. Stuart said only Lot 2 is stipulated that it's for farm help.

Stuart said this area might be for agricultural pursuits but if they wanted to do a commercial operation it

would happen in the permitted farmstand envelope, which he pointed out on the map. Tony Perry suggested

language would have to stipulate that if this were a concern. Nancy Sabin said that nobody thought a chicken

farm would have flies a mile away, either.

Stuart said this area was planned for agriculture or forestry practices. Nancy said some are concerned as to

what restrictions can be made so that they don't put an egg farm there. What is the size of the operation that

would be allowed, such as pasture, crops and animals.

Sue Patnaude asked if this Land Trust agricultural land meant that there would be no further subdivision, and

Tony Perry said he had no problem with that. Their Open Space Agreement restricts it, Stuart said. But Al read

from the Open Space Agreement condition #6, that permitted uses for this included providing labor and services.

John Patnaude added that permitted uses could sometimes mean additional farm buildings. Tony said he was

willing to strike that permitted use. Al repeated that, to Stuart, that they should strike out #6 of the Open Space

Agreement, Exhibit A, "Permitted Use."

Nancy Sabin spoke on a related concern about the trails, "and why aren't they on the mylar?" To Mr.

Perry she asked, "Have you thought about right–of–way for the trails, and aren't you concerned that you will

have to look down on that 70' high, 300' long bridge on the Patnaude property that will look like it belongs in Los

Angeles? Wouldn't it be smarter for Perry's roads and homes to connect Lot 14 to Patnaude's land development

so they won't have to look down at that abomination of a bridge? Why isn't it practical?" (Not answered.)

Mike Yantachka asked about the power lines, as he is concerned about electro–magnetic fields coming from

their power lines . Stuart said they could be a continuation of the underground lines that come off Route 7 and if

they need to have any additional lines they will also be underground. Tony Perry added that he has put 600 yards

of power lines underground at his home in Colorado. He said everything in this project will be underground and

there will be no additional poles. As for electric fencing, Stuart said this doesn't pose any electro–magnetic fields

problem.

Fire Chief Chris Davis was present and had a brief glance at the mylar, but was immediately called out on an

emergency so was unable to ask questions.

David Allen noted that they have repositioned the building envelope on Lot 4, "but I still feel strongly about

height restrictions on the houses and screening."

Tony Perry said he saw that as a condition, with the screening. Sue asked, but what if the trees don't grow?

That question didn't get answered. Stuart said he believes the homes are restricted to 30' excluding the chimney,

where the average grade of the west side of the building envelope is.

Charlie said that for the record, the things that were decided upon at the Site Visit should be reported. Al

Moraska said they agreed to move the building envelope of Lot 4 to the west, down the hill by a distance of

approximately 40', and this will be reflected in the plans. They talked about the height restrictions, and about the

screening and the underground power. Charlie said that at the Final Hearing they will submit a landscaping plan.

Tony Perry added that they are going back into the Open Space Agreement and adding a piece of Lot 14. So

Al observed Lots 1, 15, 16, part of Lot 14 and part of Lot 5 are to be included in the Open Space Agreement so

that they are now back to only a half–acre difference between what they have now, and the original agreement.

Stuart Morrow suggested that the 30' height of the house could be measured from the lowest point of the

approved building envelope, then Tony Perry agreed to that condition as regards Lots 3 and 4. This is the

Preliminary Plat review continuation, from September 22, 1998, Charlie reminded them.

• At this point, when they were about to take the motion, Bob Mack said that he had noticed at the beginning

of the meeting, that the cord for the recording device had been unplugged all evening; so we plugged it back in,

not knowing who had done it. The meeting from this point on, is recorded on tape. •

David Allen moved to close the hearing on the subdivision modification on the 2–lots in a Major Subdi

vision on the Anthony Perry property. Ed Melby seconded the motion. There being no further comments, the

motion was approved, 5–0 with one member absent.

Stuart Morrow asked, "When we make the final application, should we go before the Selectboard first to get

approval for the revised Open Space Agreement?" Selectman Bob Mack was asked, but he said it was the call of

the Planning Commission. Charlie said they should submit all of the documents including the final draft of the

OSA, and these would be turned over to the Town Attorney and be made available to both boards at the same

time. The Final approval would not change that procedure.

4. Sandy Mayo request for Executive Session: Al Moraska said an executive session normally is called by the

board members related to matters before them; he said he didn't know if it applies to people from the public

requesting an executive session. Jeff suggested that she make a presentation and if they decide to take it up in

executive session they will then do that.

Sandy said she will put it in written form and submit to the chairman of the Planning Commission, then ask

that if they do have an executive session she be allowed to appear as a guest in that executive session. It was left

at that.

5. Planner's Update:

• Planning Grant application for Charlotte Conservation Commission — coming along nicely; Charlie

applied for the money and got the necessary signatures from the Selectboard and the conservation folks. This was

for the purpose of providing money for their mapping, and assessment of significant wildlife habitat. He had to

justify that in accordance with the Town Plan and also various planning goals and projects. We don't know when

we'll hear back from it.

Al asked about the amount they asked for; they had $2600 in their budget, but they needed more. Charlie then

boosted their numbers up a little bit because they are allowed administrative expenses and overhead. The amount

is $4400. They also had to move their whole work plan timeline. One problem area that they come up with is that

the consultant may have to go out to bid. There is a whole bidding process on this although they hope that because

it has already been started, that they won't have to do this.

Jeff McDonald asked if this was a qualification–based selection. Charlie said this was a little different

because it has to do with acquiring rights–of–way and other things he had nothing to do with. Ed said he'd done a

good job with the short turn–around of only six days.

• Enhancement Grant Application for Recreation Path from Ferry Road to Mt. Philo State Park —

The Selectboard asked Charlie to work on this (with the Planning Commission's approval). Charlie provided the

commission with a sketch of the suggested route, and the grant application details.

This will go from the railroad station to the state park. This would be part of the trails to rails project or

maybe the rails to trails... Charlie has talked to the Mt. Philo people, and they like the idea; he has also talked to

Susan Compton (of the Agency of Transportation) to let her know what was going on, and to the State's traffic

consultant. He has to talk to the M.P.O. this week.

Al asked about the types of trails on the application. Charlie said there are two types of trails; a bike path is

paved, while a recreation path in general is not paved, although they may dig and then put gravel on it. It may be

similar to the Demeter trail which they have begun work on; it may shock people, he said: the trail is about 8' wide

and there are large piles of topsoil they have dug up and are putting gravel on it. (There were comments that

someone is going to make more money just from selling that topsoil than they will from creating the path.)

Questioned why the trail had to be so wide, Bob Mack said that was the width of the truck and machinery

they were using. Jeff expressed surprise that it was wider than the 4' they needed for a path. Bob Mack said the

width was probably determined by the width of the bulldozer blade. This path is not planned to be paved, because

the cost would be prohibitive. Dave Brown said they would not want to pave in a wetland anyway.

David Allen asked about this "Rails to Trails" path; was the box shown at Route 7 an existing tunnel? No,

Charlie said, it was a place where the land dipped enough so that they could put a tunnel high enough for people to

walk underneath. They can't put the underpath in but they would need to know the area where it would be so they

can include it as part of the Route 7 improvements.

The Selectboard has adopted a trails plan, and they find out that 10 years ago it was adopted as part of a

regional, state–wide greenways plan. They need Planning Commission endorsement of the trail plan altogether and

the trail plan application, which he is asking the Planning Commission to do tonight. Jeff McDonald asked if this

was based on any discussions with the property owners. Charlie said this part of it was not.

He had attended a conference in Hyde Park on this last week. Part of the whole project is the acquisition of

rights–of–way. This is only Phase I, which is for the studies, permits, engineering and scoping, and they have no

idea what that's going to involve. They very specifically did not get too detailed on the exact route. Some towns

have gone into so much detail in providing complete maps of the trails, that the State is having problems in that

any difficulties they encounter require them to go back and change the arrangements with the property owners.

This proposed route goes through the berry farm or near the lower Old Town Trail. It is near Hinsdale, the

Darling Farm, Clark's, it crosses Thorpe Brook right behind Wildwood West on some existing recreation ease

ments of trails already there and the east end of the Mack farm and connects up with the LeBoeuf property and

Greenbush Rd. before coming into the village. Going down through the village there would have to be some

shoulder work etc.

Ed Melby said as it gets down into the village the space gets tight. However Nancy Sabin said there used to

be a sidewalk there, anyway. There was a slate slab sidewalk and there may actually be pieces of it still there.

Bob Mack disagreed and said he thought it was only a dirt path but Nancy said she may even have photographic

evidence of it.

Charlie said in the Selectboard meeting of September 14, 1998 they approved this Phase, and the Regional

Planning Commission has approved it.

• Charlotte Farmland Inventory Plan — The current Town Plan says that the Charlotte Land Trust shall

conduct an inventory of all land that is used for agricultural purposes. So Charlie has been working with Bill

Coster and Eric Stone, who work part–time for Richard Pete. They are landscape architects who are out of school

and looking for projects to work on. They have been working on their own to put together this inventory, taking

information that the Land Trust has been working on for about 3 years. David Miskell and Skip Sheldon have also

been working on it. We actually have quite a number of working farms in this town.

The purpose of this study is to identify not only existing cropland but the cropland on other land that might be

used by farmers and fallow–land that might be useful for farming in the future. This would be put together on a

GIS layer, very similar to the wildlife and habitat assessment for the Conservation Commission and also dovetail

ing with the parcel layer that the Listers are having done. This would put all the soils, land use etc. that you see

here. Phase I is what they want to get done now, the Land Trust reviewed this at their meeting today and have

given their go–ahead, but they don't want the go–ahead to happen until the Planning Commission agrees that it's

something that' beneficial for the Municipal Plan. Charlie thinks it is because everything that is in the current

Town Plan is 10 years old.

The Town Plan talks about Agricultural Management Districts which never happened. Whether or not that

needs to be re–addressed or not, Charlie said, is up to the Planning Commission. They would still need the inven

tory and background to do this.

Al asked if they are going to categorize soil types, but Charlie said the soil type maps already exist. They are

already part of the GIS layers, but they are mainly going to be using the ortho photos which we have, and just pick

off the land that's being farmed right from there, and go around to each farm and find out what's farm land and

what's pasture land and then they'll take all the raw data and go to the University of Vermont and have students

there put the data on a GIS layer; basically the same as conservation studies do.

Phase I is the inventory and Phase II is where they more clearly articulate the farm objectives: what is it that

we as a Town want to do with the farms: do we want to have farmland or don't we want to have farmland?

Shelburne has already given up on farmland.

Jeff McDonald asked how many farms we have in Charlotte. Charlie said there are 18, so Jeff said it means

they have already beaten the odds.

Nancy Sabin said that last week she had visited the Monkton Town Clerk. They had obtained 5 or 6 very

large maps similar to what they are discussing here; one was a sewer map, one was forestry and agricultural map

with different colors. Isn't this some duplication of what is already available? Who are Eric Stone and Bill

Coster? Are they part of the Land Trust? No, Charlie replied, they are landscape architects.

Nancy asked who will be paying the $10,000 for this project? The Zoning Board, or the Selectboard, or the

Charlotte Land Trust via the $12,000 that we gave the Town? Charlie said the Charlotte Land Trust is putting

together the whole concept of getting this project rolling, and they will be applying to the Selectboard for money

that was appropriated at the Town Meeting. Nancy said, "Then they are going to be spending the whole $10,000

on doing this mapping versus purchasing of any land?" Charlie said this is strictly for inventory, and they aren't

doing any purchasing yet; at this time they are only looking at doing Phase I, which is about a $6507.00 project.

Then once the exact scope of the project is outlined they will be going for a more detailed estimate and breakdown.

The Land Trust will be going to the Selectboard for their appropriation.

Nancy asked if this is a waste of money, using 6 or 7 thousand of their allotted 12 thousand to do what may

be already available; she does not think that Monkton had to pay for these. Bob Mack said he believes they got

theirs from the Addison County Regional Planning and Charlie said their various committees have been working

on these for a few years now. Ed said he is sure that they did have to pay, somehow, for these to be made. Nancy

said if this information is already available, in all the different colors, wouldn't this task that is being asked for be

just a duplication of regulations already in place.

Sandy Mayo said what the Planning Commission supports tonight affects the whole project. Charlie re

minded her that they were discussing programs tonight. Sandy said in discussing the programs they should look at

the entire package; if the other groups want to do it in phases that's fine, but when the Town is looking at it, she

said, our goals should be to look at the entire project. If the goals are phased, and Phase I uses all its money then

more money is needed than was planned just to do Phase II.

Charlie said, "Just to follow up on some of the concerns that have been raised, these are exactly some of the

concerns that the Land Trust expressed. They felt that this team of Coster and Stone would be best utilized at the

Inventory stage. In Phase II when it gets into awareness, management objectives, policies and management

districts, it would be much better under the direct control of the Planning Commission."

This would be something, he said, that would be part of the Municipal Plan and it's not something that the

Land Trust wants to do; that is, to promote policy in Town. They want the Planning Commission to do that.

Their only involvement here is just to help the Town get this study organized and get it going and get it promoted

so that the Town can have the active inventory to make these decisions. Phase II here, he said, is essentially

decision that the Planning Commission is going to be studying and they might even bring in an outside consultant

who is more knowledgeable on agriculture and economics and more experienced than the two fellows who are

doing the inventory.

Al Moraska said a lot of the information should be coordinated with the work that they are doing in those

other departments. Charlie said each part will have its overlay. You would be able to see the wetland overlay, and

the farmland overlay, and it would help with the decision making when they come to the Phase II part of it. That is

really why they didn't want to put this Phase II under the inventory.

David Allen wanted to express an opinion that, personally he would like to support anything that can help

farming; what's gone on in the fields of Shelburne has crossed the line and "it's coming towards us." Dave Brown

related a similar opinion; he had recently gone to work on a beaver-trapping job in Williston and found that the

reason this happened is that the pond that was there for many years was completely filled in with dirt. That's why

the beavers had no place to go.

Sandy Mayo said her concern now is having a Conservation Commission and now having a Conservation

Fund Advisory Committee, and having 2¢ on the tax rate to put money into the conservation fund, to be paying a

private organization. She questions why we are not relying more on the Conservation Commission. "Why are we

asking for other dollars to send to a private organization rather than using our commissions?" she asked.

She said to Charlie, "You didn't write this up, these folks, did, didn't they?" Charlie said they authored it, but

he was with them and meeting with them. She persisted that the Charlotte Land Trust should be doing this. Nancy

Sabin added that Shirley Allen had come in, to the Conservation Fund, to buy the second half of the Whalley

Woods land at a very nominal amount of money, that they were supposed to be the conduit for getting the land

surveyed, etc. But as much as I bat back and forth with Bobby Mack, if he put his foot out of a truck with a

measuring device he could tell you every piece of land, whether it was farming or wetland or whatever and you

would know, without paying $5,000 for it. For the Charlotte Land Trust to be wasting, excuse me, I mean spend-

ing close to $10,000 and not buy a hunk of land that is being thrown out at a more than reasonable cost, she said,

it doesn't make sense. "What have we done with the 2¢ (of the tax rate) that was supposed to take care of things

like that?" Nancy said someone like Mr. Mack could do this farm inventory study for a fraction of the cost that

these people will want.

Jeff said the point is, that this information may exist, but can this information be collected? Are these the best

people for it? He thinks this is a study that we want done, and whether it goes to these people or not it's a process

we should discuss and if we need to go to the Selectboard I don't know but we will need this information during

the next 10 years. Charlie said he had been working with these people for about a month and got this far. "If

you've got other information to go about it in a different way, I'll just put it on the shelf until I hear from you," he

said to Sandy. Jeff said he would want it to present it to the board but he doesn't know about the expenditures.

Charlie said he is not asking this board for expenditures; he is asking this board, "Is this something that you

want and you want done and you want me to pursue, to provide you with information for the Municipal Plan

update. If you don't think you need farmland identification information then I will drop it; but I think you need

this kind of information for planning." Jeff agreed, as did each member of the Planning Commission. Dave Brown

said he wanted to make sure that they didn't pay double, but agreed that decision came under the purview of the

Selectboard.

Sandy said she agreed that the information was needed, but still asked why it couldn't come from the commit

tees. Al Moraska said he thinks this information will be given to the committees to help them do their job. All the

members expressed agreement with this and said they did not think it called for a motion.

6. More General Business: Charlie said he will be attending a lunch meeting tomorrow (Oct. 8) with the

Williston, Shelburne and Hinesburg Planners. This will be to talk about district-wide impacts on schools from new

development. Of course Williston and Shelburne have more at stake than Charlotte, but he wanted the people on

the Planning Commission to know that he was going to this, and to see if anyone had something for him to bring to

this meeting or anything for him to bring back from that meeting.

Ed Melby asked where the impact is hitting most — was it the elementary schools, or the high school? They

were recently looking at enlarging the area west of the elementary school and found that they couldn't even walk in

the field there with boots on because it was so wet.

Another thing relating to this is the cost sharing for the high school? Ed asked what the situation was in

relation to size, as far as the high school goes. It was felt among those in this room, that Williston really needs to

get its own high school. Williston is growing so fast that when they built their most recent expansion they began

school with two classes having to reside in the hallways. They just cannot keep up with it. There are rumors that

Williston will be dropping out of the Champlain Valley Union district.

Al asked what that will do to the other towns; will it add to their costs? Dave Brown said what Charlie needs

to do, is make it known that the Town of Charlotte only wants to pay its fair share; if they have less students, then

they should pay according to that fact.

Although Charlotte's situation isn't that bad, Nancy related that there are four kindergarten classes, but the

school board insists that they all be held in the morning instead of holding two in the morning and two in the

afternoon like most of the other towns nearby.

Other General Business: Charlie gave copies of a letter from Karl Neuse, the attorney for the A. Johnson

property. What they want him to do, as Zoning Administrator, is to explain paragraph 6. "There shall be no

clearcutting on that lot (Lot 3)" Charlie said the attorney wants his opinion of what the Planning Commission

means by "no clearcutting." They also want to know how he would enforce this, as Zoning Administrator.

Charlie said as he recalls, the cutting restrictions part of it refer to the forestry practices guide. Currently, Ed

Melby said, that's all they can do. At the meeting, that question was asked and we told them what we meant by

clearcutting. Charlie said he guessed he could make a determination of the way to reply, based on that meeting.

What they want to know, or where they want to go with this "legalese" detail, Charlie said he didn't know; but he

would give Karl Neuse a call and find out a little more background on why they want it spelled out further. It

wouldn't be to anyone's advantage to be filing an appeal to the environmental court. Jeff suggested the environ

mental court could come up with a definition (in jest).

Al said there will be an inter–town exchange meeting at the end of the month, the 24th and 25th of October.

He would like some members of the Planning Commission to go to some part of this; it will be at Charlotte

Elementary School.

Al Moraska moved to adjourn, at 9:10 p.m. Ed Melby seconded the motion and the meeting adjourned on a

vote of 4–0 with (now) 2 members absent.

Submitted by Nancy Lane

APPROVED BY THE CHARLOTTE PLANNING COMMISSION