Charlotte Planning Commission
Minutes of
Meeting of
October 17,
2002
Charlotte Town
Hall – 159 Ferry Road
Town Office –
(802) 425-3533
Gene Diou
Gordon Troy
Josie
Leavitt
Al Moraska
Members
Absent: Jim Donovan
Dave Brown
Officials
Present: Dean Bloch
Others in
attendance:
Chris Boffa Stephen
C. Brooks
James Callery Holly
Callery
Lee Smith Clark
W. Hinsdale, Jr.
Frank Lambert Tom
Catanzarita
Michael
Buscher Victoria
Rosen
Daniel Rosen Amy Demetrowitz
Eleanor
Russell Carl
Johnson
Harold Stewart Chip Patello
Bob Costanza Bill Maclay
Sheila Braun Debbie
Ramsdell
Alice &
James Lawrence Dave
Marshall
Linda S.
Hamilton Charles
Russell
Chair Jeff McDonald called the meeting to order at
7:08 p.m.
Mr. McDonald asked the commission members if the agenda met their approval. Everyone was in agreement the agenda was satisfactory.
PUBLIC COMMENT
Gordon Troy asked about the last meeting and the interim zoning temporary amendments and what is being done on that issue. Mr. McDonald said that he met with Jonathan Fisher and due to the fact that there was no public outcry and the Town is not in any known legal risk, it was not recommended to do temporary changes and instead to wait and do the full amendment with a consultant. Mr. Bloch said that it is not certain until November if the Town will receive the grant monies to do this project, but it was agreed that the RFP process still should be started.
Mr. Brooks reported that he has given to the Town two maps on Charlotte geology and as he pointed them out, he noted that the Select Board has approved the Town getting them laminated.
DELIBERATION AND
WRITTEN DECISION: STEARNS, MUSHKAT
SKETCH PLAN
LETTER: CLARK
The PC went into deliberation on these issues at this time.
MINUTES
It was decided that any approval of minutes would not be done at this meeting.
CHAMPLAIN VALLEY
CO-HOUSING (applicant) AND JAMES CALLERY, SPRAGUE HUNTINGTON, HOLLY CALLERY,
AND VIRGINIA BEAMS (PROPERTY OWNERS):
PRELIMINARY PLAT HEARING FOR A PLANNED RESIDENTIAL DEVELOPMENT, CREATING
26 DWELLING UINTS AND ACCESSORY COMMON BUILDINGS.
Mr. Bill Maclay, on behalf of Champlain Valley Co-Housing (CVCH), addressed the Planning Commission and gave a brief overview of the project and its status. He showed various drawings as follows:
S1 - overall property survey
S2 - survey which showed proposed development area and the proposed access road
S-2.2 - subdivision within the project. Each owner will have a single lot.
S-3 - original property
S-4 - configuration of what they are proposing
S-5 - maps that relate to Town Plan requirements with resources on the site, e.g. wildlife habitat, forest lands, wetlands
S-6 - overlay of what is prime ag soils
S-7 - current land use of the property
S-8 - proposed land use of the property. Similar to existing land use. Proposed changes are 8 acres of 125 acres. Shows proposed sewage areas and proposed replacement area for swage. Shows corridor along Thorpe Brook – “No cut” zone.
S-9 - shows context of conserved land and existing conserved land.
S-10 - aerial photograph which shows proposed road location.
Mr. Moraska jointed the
meeting at this point – 7:40 p.m.
S-11 - photos of different parts of the site.
S-12 - Instead of S-12, use landscape architect drawings, which show main access road, parking area and proposed office and common building. The basic plan is a common building for shared dining, living room, bedrooms for guests. Main concept for housing area is village green. Shows existing hedgerow which would be retained.
-pedestrian-oriented street
-proposed ring road
-secondary area for parking for detached housing
Mr. Troy asked if the single family homes would have garages and the answer was “no.” Mr. Maclay said that the buildings are in the same location as the last hearing, but the parking structures have moved 14 feet. Mr. Troy asked about the flags which are on the land and if they could be cross-referenced. David Marshall said that the stakes are in the proposed road location and have been changed due to wetland concerns but are substantially the same as last time. Mr. Moraska asked about the little flags in the field that were tied to the pine trees (orange tape). Mr. Maclay explained that those were for surveying purposes. Mr. Callery said that the stakes are very clear because he just mowed the property today and the stakes show a definite pattern.
Mr. Marshall went on to explain that this landscape drawing also shows plans of
the community building, duplexes and triplexes floor plans, and elevations of
the community building.
Dean Bloch asked for floor numbers and height to which Mr. Maclay responded that the average building is 28 feet from grade.
Another drawing showed Wildwood West subdivision going south to the end of the green. Mr. Maclay said that someone would have the right to build a house as they like but it would have to go through a design review process with the co-housing association. He next showed a plan looking from Wildwood West at the project. Mr. Moraska asked how high the berm was intended to be and Mr. Maclay said 4-5 feet and it goes down where the existing hedgerow of trees currently exists. Mr. McDonald then asked the public for questions. Dan Rosen asked how the height of buildings goes with the tree line and about the visibility from Greenbush Road. Mr. Maclay said that earlier on, they had used balloons to test the visibility and they were at 35 feet and it was possible to see a balloon at some places and some were at 25 feet, but most were invisible from Greenbush Road.
Mr. Troy expressed his concern and those of Linda Hamilton and the Conservation Committee (referring to the email distributed by Ms. Hamilton), about ways to bolster the habitat, and changing the existing culvert and the need to do cut and fill to bring the road up. Jake Callery said that “the culvert had been built for access.” It was asked if there was a better way to construct a road through that section (e.g.: a bridge) to maximize it for wildlife. Mr. Maclay said that CVCH did hire Jeff Parsons, a consultant, to identify the wildlife there. His recommendations are to do additional plantings. The grading does cut into the embankment, but to make it so that headlights will not be visible into the Wildwood West subdivision. Ms. Hamilton said that the Conservation Committee did a site visit early on and advised that the corridor was a sensitive area and it would be good to enrich the vegetation in that area. It was noted that Jeff Parsons made a recommendation but it was not reviewed yet. Mr. Maclay said that he did walk on the site and showed on the map where the area is and showed the proposed road location. Mr. Troy said that he could see that CVCH tried to minimize the cutting of trees that are in the way of the proposed roadway. Mr. McDonald asked for other questions. Clark Hinsdale asked if there was any protection for the Berry Farm. Mr. McDonald asked if there were any fencing proposed and Mr. Maclay said no, but there are dense pine trees there.
A question was raised about affordable housing and how many people would be living there. Mr. Maclay said that there are twenty-six (26) units and they are requesting a density bonus for two (2) additional units beyond twenty-four (24). Frank Lambert noted that there is no formula on how many people are going to live there and the concern is long-term: 1) who is proposing it now and 2) once it is built, different things can happen, i.e. density issue. He asked if there are things that the PC can do to deal with density, such as formulas because things keep growing. Mr. McDonald said that the PC has looked at the square footage issue and it is a case-by-case matter. There was a discussion about number of bedrooms and number of people proposed. Mr. Maclay counted rooms on the drawing and reported that there are eighty-seven (87) bedrooms proposed. Dan Rosen said that from a neighbor’s point of view, he wanted to know how many people that meant. Mr. McDonald said that the current average used is 2.5 people per dwelling unit. Mr. Troy said that would amount to 65 people for this project. Mr. McDonald asked if affordable housing units were identified as yet. Mr. Maclay said that they had not yet been identified. Mr. Troy said that Mr. Rosen had asked a question about density that was not yet answered and for clarification, in the current bylaws, it is 5 acre density per dwelling unit with affordable housing being allowed to add a 25% bonus. Mr. Rosen asked what constitutes affordable housing and Mr. Troy said as it is presently addressed in the town plan and zoning ordinance. The key to the calculation is wages and translates into under approximately $200,000 per unit. Mr. Rosen asked what the price would be and Sheila Braun said that it would be less than $180,000 for an affordable unit. Amy Demetrowitz from BCLT said that affordable housing is based on income of families that buy the house ($59,000 in Chittenden County). They are still working on what the price will be, but it won’t be above $160,000, she said.
Mr. Bloch asked if there would be any exterior lighting for this project to which Mr. Maclay said there will be lighting underneath the porches. Michael Buscher from TJ Boyle & Associates, landscape architects, said that currently there are 3 lighting fixtures planned to light the parking lot. Mr. Rosen asked what their height would be and Mr. Buscher said that it was not yet determined, but in the realm of 10 feet. Mr. Rosen asked how it would affect the berm and Mr. Buscher said that the berm is 197 feet and this kind of lighting proposed doesn’t allow light beyond 80 degrees and it is a downshielding light. He said the fixtures are not on the main pedestrian path and they are on the other side of the green. They will be a compact fluorescent or metal halide and comply with Vermont lighting standards. Mr. Rosen asked if there would be a light on the parking shed on the west access road and Mr. Buscher said that he assumes there will be lighting inside of that. Mr. McDonald said that the PC will need a lighting plan for the final hearing. Linda Hamilton said that she assumed they would use some sort of motion-sensitive lighting and Mr. Buscher said yes, either that or photocells. Mr. Rosen asked about lighting on the access road coming in from Greenbush Road and Mr. Buscher said that there will be no lighting. Lighting is only done for security purposes, he said.
Mr. Moraska asked if Jeff Parsons was present and Mr. Maclay said no; however, Mr. Moraska said that he was interested in his plan. Mr. Maclay said that it had been submitted to the Town. Mr. Buscher showed block plantings and locations. The current access road will be filled with white pine and juniper, which will be supplemental to natural plantings that are already there, he said. Mr. Troy asked if there was going to be a second pond. Mr. Maclay said yes and asked David Marshall to elaborate on the answer to this question. Mr. Marshall addressed the meeting and said that the pond is intended for: 1) fire protection; 2) stormwater management for project area (they will collect water and hold it in the pond; without that, it would run off into Thorpe Brook) and 3) it would be created so it could be used as a swimming hole. Mr. Bloch asked if the pond had a source and Mr. Marshall said, yes, groundwater. Mr. Bloch asked about a collecting mechanism and Mr. Marshall said that the collection system is a sub-surface one with drainage inlets. Mr. Bloch said that a fire hydrant to be 1200 feet from any residence and asked if they had looked at that. Mr. Marshall said that yes, they have looked at it to an extent, but do not have a number right now.
Mr. McDonald asked for questions. Mr. Brooks asked what kind of finishing materials would be used and Mr. Maclay said that metal roofing would be used and for walls, a material that looks like clapboard probably will be used, but it is not yet determined. Mr. Rosen asked where the paving would start. Mr. Maclay said that there will be no paving, just gravel. Mr. McDonald asked about materials between for fire walls. Mr. Maclay said that all materials will go through the approval process of the State’s Labor & Industry Department. Mr. McDonald asked about sprinklers and Mr. Maclay said that there is no requirement for that and they are not proposing sprinklers. Mr. Bloch reported that he had spoken with the fire chief and he has concerns about setbacks and the size of the ring road and through road and will address his concerns in a letter. Mr. Maclay said that they have a 10 foot setback for each unit and there are no fire protection measures that are required based on Vermont law. There was a brief discussion on emergency vehicles and use of the road and Mr. Maclay said that they will use signage on the roads and police vehicular traffic themselves. Eleanor Russell asked how many cars will be able to park there and Mr. Maclay said there will be 54 parking spaces. Ms. Russell asked about visitor parking. Mr. Maclay said that the goal is not to have a lot of additional parking. Debbie Rumsfeld asked if visitors could park across from the common house and Mr. Maclay said yes, that the common building will have two spaces for that purpose. Mr. Brooks asked if, when everybody is home and a party is going on, where those cars would park. Mr. Maclay said that the average household will not have two cars. Mr. Hinsdale asked about drinking water. Mr. Marshall said there are 3 wells on the property and they will go through testing to make sure they have adequate water. Mr. Hinsdale asked how much water is required for this project and Mr. Marshall said it is based on the number of bedrooms (12,000 gal/day and 15-18 gal/min based on the present numbers). Mr. Callery noted that the three wells are artesian.
Mr. Moraska asked about the plantings and expressed his concern that they were of a sort that provided a food source for the wildlife. He asked that CVCH talk with Jeff Parsons and see if other plantings could be considered that would be a food source for wildlife and not just white pines. Mr. Buscher said that they are requesting oaks or other food plantings in other areas. Mr. McDonald asked Mr. Maclay to bring this issue up with Jeff Parsons, i.e. loss of hedgerow created food issue. There will need to be another site visit. Frank Lambert said that he would like to see another site visit because he is concerned about the jump in number of bedrooms since the last hearing on this (57- 86). Mr. McDonald agreed and it was decided that the next site visit would be Saturday, November 2 at 9:00 a.m. Frank Lambert requested flags be clear in relation to the proximity to Wildwood West and he would like to see where the road and the buildings are going to be. There was a discussion on height of buildings and Mr. Troy suggested that the issue of square footage of each of the structures and floor plan footage be held until the next meeting. Mr. Hinsdale asked about the deadline for this project and inquired if there was a right to farm covenants in this plan. Sheila Braun assured Mr. Hinsdale that there was one there.
There was a short break of 5 minutes.
DISCUSSION OF ELECTRONIC CIRCULATION OF DOCUMENTS
Josie Leavitt expressed her opinion that she didn’t
think the Planning Commission should circulate documents electronically. Mr. Brooks expressed that, to support
citizen participation and the vital rural lifestyle of the Town, he supports
the idea of providing minutes and notes electronically and would like to see
the Planning Commission do so, if possible.
Mr. McDonald responded by saying that not all of the Planning Commission
members have computer capability and they have to receive the documents before
the public. Mr. Troy explained that
these packets they receive contain documents that are submitted by an applicant
that are usually copies and are not sent electronically and therefore would not
be available electronically. Mr.
McDonald said that approved minutes would be fine. Mr. Brooks asked what is public and what is not. Mr. Bloch answered that the PC never did
agree that notes were or not public.
Mr. McDonald explained that, until the members convene as a Planning
Commission, Mr. Bloch is a consultant to them. Mr. Bloch said that an applicant is an
interested party and Title 24 identifies who are interested parties. After a brief discussion, Mr. Brooks asked
“do you think it is in the best interest of the community to make an effort to
get these documents to the two entities that publish every week or two?” Mr. Troy asked Ed Merritt’s opinion on the
subject. Ed Merritt said that he “has
never have run into a problem getting the agenda or notes. My concern is flip side of Select Board.
What do you need the community to help you with and how can you gain that community
input in the best way?” Ms. Leavitt
said that a town website would be good.
Ms. Russell said that the ultimate plan is to develop a website to have
the posting of the agenda, minutes etc.
However, one of the problems is to have someone who can maintain
it. Mr. Troy volunteered he would
assist in organizing it. Mr. Hinsdale
said that he had attended a meeting in another town at which they had the names
of the people on the board and staff people listed on the agenda. Ms. Hamilton said she does not object to
the website, but more needs to be done because not everyone has access to a
computer.
Mr. McDonald directed members to forward their
corrections to the minutes to Dean Bloch and he will arrange to have them
corrected.
ADJOURN
Ms. Leavitt moved to adjourn and Mr. Troy
seconded. All were in favor and the
meeting was adjourned at 9:30 p.m.
Respectfully
submitted,
Kimberly
L. Johnson