CHARLOTTE PLANNING COMMISSION

Guests Signed In:

Linda Radimer

Ed LeClair

Jeffrey Jarrod

Jack Clemmons

Judy Rowe

Faraj Nakhleh

Michael Rubin

Russell W. Comstock

Liam Murphy

Sylvia Sprigg

Ted Montgomery

Per Kreck Hansen

Michael I. Yantachka

Mary Charlebois

Ronald Charlebois

Stuart J. Morrow

Tony & Teri Perry

Marty Illick

Sarah Montgomery

Ralph M. Thomas

1. General Business: Review of November 18^th Minutes: This was deferred until another of the Planning Commission members would arrive.

2. Other Business: There will be a Site Visit on Saturday, December 4^th on Joseph & Martha Keenan’s property at Dorset St. Extension at 9:00 a.m. – take a right turn at the Thibault Farm.

Dean mentioned that there is a request from the Selectboard to use $1,000 from the Planning Commission’s current year budge to cover the computers’ lease contract. There was a consensus of the members that this request could be honored.

Al said the request for fireproof filing cabinets and a color printer that Dean suggested for the rest of the amount are in this coming year’s budget request. Ed Melby asked Dean to make a year-end projection and any suggestions he has.

3. Faraj Nakhleh, 2271 Lake Road and Archie and Phyllis McCarty, 181 Windswept Lane – request for a Subdivision Modification: Faraj Nakhleh described the proposal on plans he brought before the commission.

The McCarty parcel would be reduced from 46.88 acres to the 7.16 acres and the remaining 39.72 acres would be sold to Nakhleh. The 7.1 acres that Mr. Nakhleh has is already surveyed and fenced, but he was told that unless the McCarty’s lot is increased to 10 acres they will need State permits for septic. A lot of discussion then centered around relocating the lines on the map to increase the 7.16 acre lot to 10 acres. But rather than do that, since nothing is planned to be built on that section Mr. Nakhleh would rather wait for the State permits and go with the map he first brought in for approval. They decided to put a slotted line there and continue with the same map. That 7.16 acre parcel would belong to McCarty. The Nakhleh parcel will be the 39.72 acres plus 5.03 acres, to total of 44.75.

Al Moraska moved to approve the subdivision modification reducing Archie and Phyllis McCarty’s lot to 7.16 acres with the condition that the McCarty parcel have a State review of septic, pending that the existing property line be redrawn. The Nakhleh parcel size will be one large lot of 44.75 acres. Ed Melby seconded the motion and it was approved, 5–0 with 1 absent and 1 member not here yet.

4. Ten Stones, Inc., Sketch Plan for Subdivision Modification adding three lots to a fourteen lot planned residential development subdivision on 87.4 acres on Greenbush Road in a rural district. (Refer to Chapter III of Charlotte Subdivision Bylaws.) Ed LeClair of 345 Ten Stones Circle, and Jeffrey Jarrod represented the 13 families whose representatives were present in the audience.

Mr. LeClair told Dean they appreciated that he had gone through the files and getting the background on it. They had been advised in the past only to come back with their request if something changed in the circumstances.

The families tried to get together and share tools, child care, form long friendships etc. in a neighborhood of their own. This has worked very well; (the families present waved and smiled in agreement) they wanted to make this land that they had placed in conservation use, back into the agricultural uses that were originally there. For instance they have started a c.s.a. garden that he described on the map, and a composting section.

There are several requests from people who want to get into the Ten Stones development and there is a waiting list; that is one of the things that is driving this request.

Mr. LeClair showed where there is a higher ridge in the area where they propose 3 new lots. It would extend as a tail off from the circle below the ridge and from Greenbush Road the development would be invisible. The only place that could actually see these would be from one house.

They have investigated through their engineers, who have assured them that the septic capacity can handle these additional lots. They have also spoken with Ernie Christiansen who seemed to agree that this would work. Water-wise, individual drilled wells are planned for each of these lots. The power is in, and parking for them would be for each individual lot.

Ed Melby asked about the innovative wetland disposal section that they have been using. Mr. LeClair said they call this an “engineered wetland” and the testing has shown they are under the State requirements on every reading but one for the entire time. Usually it takes awhile since it is planted, so it has to grow. But even from the very beginning it is under the State specifications.

Ed asked if it was similar to the South Burlington system. Mr. LeClair said it is only similar in that the design is from the same engineer. The South Burlington one is another step up in innovation. This one has a gravel filter with plants on top of it. The South Burlington one has about 80,000 capacity but it has a similar approach.

Al noted that the original approval was given in 1993: “Final approval of the modification of Shelburne Partnership, Section A, as presented by and re-titled, ‘Lands of Ten Stones, Section A, Final Plat,’ dated 10/91, last revised 1/21/93, with the following conditions: ....” and part of the conditions read, “No further residences will be allowed on the common land or any other part of the property of Section A.”

Mr. LeClair acknowledged the facts that Al had stated. He said Jeffrey Jarrod and he had come down and researched the town’s files for hours and hours. He said he wished he could go to one point in the regulations and understand what the logic was in granting only 13 lots. He said the chairman at that time, Bill Shroeder, had said what they needed to do is to find out what has changed since the time of the approval. So they went back and tried to find out what the thinking back then was.

One limit was the septic capacity, and another was the concern about 13 houses all going in at one time and the impact it would have on the school. Also at that time the concept of clustering was a big deal so with such an innovative approach there was a wait-and-see attitude. Now the regulations have changed so that the lot size in a p.r.d. is allowed to be smaller and the Town Plan appears to be promoting the clustering of homes in order to preserve open space. They now feel that they were caught in these earlier stages of the p.r.d. idea and were limited to a much smaller amount of lots than would be allowed today. They feel if the plan were presented now they would be allowed the full density of 17 lots. They have from 60% to 70% of open land.

Ed Melby observed, since he was not a member of the Planning Commission at that time, that on occasions when he has gone over to that area it appears to be working well and they have done a good job of keeping up their properties. With the innovative wetlands septic working well, he said, and the present regulations he does not see any problems with allowing these three additional sites.

Al noted there is a contract and there must be reasons to rescind it. Ed said the reasons to rescind it were that the septic area appears to be proven, and that it’s really an asset to the community to try and get clustered housing rather than having it dispersed all over the landscape. It appears to be working and Ed commended them for coming up with this system. Al asked what the status of the fire pond is, and Jeffrey Jarrod told him David Miskell had it repaired. As far as Ed LeClair knows, it is working as of a year ago. Al said the fire chief needs to be contacted.

Dave Brown asked how many wells there are, and their capacity. There are 4 wells, and one of them has more than 100/gallons per minute. But Jeffrey said they can’t tap onto that because of the requirements.

Al asked how these extra lots would infringe on the open space. Jeffrey described on the map, the actual open area with 40 acres. Where the garden is located is at the edge of the 40 acres. Basically this development is in the area that is in the region where the circle is; and it is near the common house. They don’t have any individual plan yet for any homes.

David Woolf asked again for the three reasons for consideration, and Ed LeClair enumerated them:

1) The school addition has been completed.

2) The impact of the 13 houses coming all at once has already been absorbed.

3) The fire pond has been put back into working order.

Al Moraska observed that it appears that the development would be cutting into the wetland buffer zone. They replied that their understanding of the wetland buffer zone is that actually they can’t build in the buffer zone but the lots can extend into the buffer zone. The lots would be about a half-acre in size and some discussion speculated about their location. The consensus of members present suggested a site visit to look at this proposal.

Jack Clemmons asked what the limit would be for a cluster. There doesn’t appear to be a limit. This one would have a total of 17 including the original brick house in addition to the common house which is not a residence. Jack said this all has to be clarified in case there are more applications that would come up in the future.

Jack asked if Ten Stones’ plan was going to be the accepted definition and model for future development. Al agreed they will have to look at that and come up with a definition in the writing of future regulations.

Linda Radimer (of the Conservation Commission) noted that the precedent for changing the agreement is that it is not taking any land out of the open land. Al agreed: open space cannot be reduced.

The time for the site visit was agreed upon, as December 11^th at 9:00 a.m.

5. Tony Perry, Final Plat hearing for a re-subdivision, creating 17 lots on 107 acres on Route 7 in Rural zoning district: Stuart Morrow represented the clients, Tony and Teri Perry, who were present. Atty. Liam Murphy was also present.

Stuart Morrow referred to a letter he wrote regarding the Conclusions of Law and Decision for the Preliminary Plat Approval dated April 22, 1999. His concern related to item 2 on page 2 of that document. The last sentence says “A fire pond will not be required to be built on Lot 9 if the alternate conditions proposed by Fire Chief Chris Davis are met.”

Stuart said the three options Chris Davis had given them were to have a sprinkler system in house to construct a pond or dry hydrant on Lot 9, or could extend a dry hydrant from a line that would be 1500 ft. long within that cluster. This is for the north phase and that may not be started for two or three years, so they hate to make a commitment now, exactly what they are going to do although they would satisfy the fire department’s requirements.

Tony Perry stated that the pond on Lot 9 was only dug for the cows and it goes dry in the summer. Stuart said they would agree to do one or the other of the two alternatives but don’t want to be specific at this point. He added that they would not choose the option until Chris Davis or whoever the Fire Chief is at that time looks at it and tells them what he wants them to do. Liam Murphy echoed the same statement. Al Moraska verified that this was acceptable to write that in as a condition and they agreed.

Al asked Dave Brown to report on his recommendations for the hiking trail. Dave said he had gone there with Linda Radimer, and suggested that the trail could go south on the bottom meadow along the hedgerow and up toward Lot 6 where there is an old road that goes north and south along the fence line; it connects with the trail at Patnaude’s via the Demeter property.

Tony said he has spoken with an adjoining property owner, John Abele about the best location. John thought it should go through the woodlot and down through a swale and under the railroad tracks. The field has one area that has septic disposal so some of the discussion was trying to come to an agreement. Tony said he is flexible about the design and he pointed out a couple of wildlife corridors especially along the side of the hill.

Liam read their proposal which give some flexibility for the location but they will come up with some possibilities so they are not held to an exact location. Tony said he is pulling back a fence line 16' and is planting it in order to create a wildlife corridor.

Marty said she likes the idea of flexibility and even for going near Route 7 to avoid going on Nature’s Way (the street name). Stuart said they really don’t want the road to go east to Route 7 because that pull-off on Route 7 would then become a major tourist attraction. Jeff McDonald agreed that we had realized that and concur that it may become a problem there. All agreed on it going alongside the railroad on the west side, however.

Stuart said he can put something together on a mylar that is open to change if necessary re the recommendation of the town attorney. They want to keep it on Parcel C at this time.

Next they discussed the planting plan. Some of the trees have already been put in. Liam said for the lots in the cluster to the west he agrees with the height, etc. for those since they are down the hill from the ridge. For lots 3 and 4 the trees are already the same height of the existing houses.

Mike Yantachka asked to restrict the heights for lots 10, 11 and 12 to 30' because of the extra 5' that Liam Murphy is asking the Act 250 Commission to raise it. That extra 5' interferes with his own view. There should be a 30' height restriction on house peaks for lots 10, 11 and 12. Another neighbor asked about lot 9, but it appears the building envelope for that is down low enough that it won’t be a problem. The applicant agreed to that height restriction for lots 10, 11 and 12.

Stuart asks that the #7 restriction be clarified for the two lots in the south cluster (lots 3 and 4). For the lots down the hill they request that the height be the same as other houses in Charlotte; 35' high. Lot 1 is the farmhouse. Liam suggested that these covenants be put on the mylars and the deeds for each lot.

Dean suggested the deed language from condition #20 of the preliminary draft should be submitted. Dean noted that the Town Attorney has requested that the covenants also be submitted. Liam wants the official conditions to refer only to that portion of the covenants that relate to each deed.

David Woolf voiced a concern of some town residents about visibility of the night sky; that is, they want to see any exterior lighting with shields. Liam said their covenants say that. David also asked about the color of gravel for the common roads. Tony said they are using blue stone from New Haven in the roads they have now.

Al Moraska moved to close the hearing on the Tony Perry subdivision and to go into deliberation. Dave Brown seconded the motion and it was approved, 6–0 with one member absent.

Liam Murphy asked to see a draft of what is in the motion, and Dean said he would do that.

6. General Business (continued), review of minutes for November 18, 1999: Reword the account of the application of Joseph and Martha Keenan to reflect the official application. It was ruled that additional discussion was related to the agreement with the Land Trust and not important to this application in the long run. Change name from Linda Radimer on page 2 to Linda Hamilton who made the complimentary comments. Change “they” in regards to intentions of the Planning Commission, to “we” and fix some computer software program conversion problems that occurred due to the MS Word software change in the office.

“Economy” referred bo by Al on the last page as refers to page 26 in the draft of the Town Plan should be changed to “economic.” (This is more specific to the direction that Al made.) Reference to the timing of submitting the Town Plan draft to the Selectboard was changed to November 19^th for the hearing on December 20^th.

Al Moraska moved to accept the minutes for November 18^th with the corrections noted. Dave Brown seconded the motion and it was approved, 6–0 with 1 absent.

7. Village Master Plan discussion: Al noted that there is $12,500 in funds available due to the grant from the State that Dean did so much hard work for. He thanked Dean for all the researching and digging up past work that has been done in previous village studies. This way when a consultant is hired that person won’t have to waste time to research the same things.

Al said there may be enough left in the budget to raise the amount to $15,000. Jeff recalled that the public participation part of the study would best be done by volunteers from the Planning Commission, while the consultant could use that information to do the maps and aims part of it from input out of the public meetings. This may save money and the time that is charged by the hour for the consultant. A facilitator may get $100/hr.

Jeff suggested we advertise with pre-qualification and then ask for concrete proposals from these people while explaining the amount that is in our budget; then we can see where we can carry it further than that. Dean said he did talk to Jim Donovan about that topic since he does similar things in his job.

Ed Melby said there are certain things that are related; the senior housing, water, septic for instance. Jeff agreed; we’ve had the village plan, the senior housing, Burns property, a design charrette a few years ago and these have to be considered in this. Jeff said he does have some materials on how to review the qualifications; based on some of the statements that come out of this and information gleaned out of these proposals may give us additional ideas on how to proceed.

Jack Clemmons suggested that we look at specific sites that may be up for sale such as one on Route 7 near Ferry Road. If we could get someone in town to make some renderings, to show what potential development might be for these two or three structures in that site – on one level and somewhat tiered since there are two levels of structures that could be commercial with parking areas. Then approach whomever that owns the land about it, their use and potential use in development and see what their reaction is when they see this laid out in front of them. And propose it might that they are given a reduction in taxes for two or three years as incentive and help to carry this out. If it worked it might be a potential way of looking at other areas of concern that are just sitting there waiting for someone to come in and develop some wanted area that might be of long term concern of the Town. What may be developed might not be what they like or want to do but it might be too late for the Town to do anything about it. If the land is there, anticipate what the problems might be, anticipate the potential and work towards an effective solution with the owners.

Jeff agreed that we have to define the scope of how big the area is and also get some vision so that if someone comes in and wants to invest time, they will realize that if what they want to do with the property fits in with that vision they would have support for it. Jack suggests that this be a beginning step, of getting someone to give us a picture of various sites and the way it would look.

Dean said it is important to have the public input and cautioned about getting a good product that now sits on a shelf and no one does anything about it.

Marty Illick spoke about the Affordable Housing study they did. In its recommendations it was very specific although they talked about general sites. They need 30 units (single units) close to the village area that cost less than $130,000.

Dean Bloch has a copy of the recommendations in the files. David Woolf has a copy from 1990. Dean did sent something to members of the Village Committee and there were only a couple of calls regarding that so the Planning Commission needs to take the ball and go with it. Al said some of these suggestions are incorporated in the Town Plan. Marty suggested some of this is being done with the approvals of accessory apartments.

Some of the people living in the village really may not want additional people. Jeff said we need to know how much growth can really occur in the village. Feedback we have gotten back from the village gets questions about how much new growth they can absorb, how they can handle additional septic and water needs. Al said there may be enough left in the budget to raise the amount to $15,000. Jeff recalled that the public participation part of the study would best be done by volunteers from the Planning Commission, while the consultant could use that information to do the maps and aims part of it from input out of the public meetings. This may save money and the time that is charged by the hour for the consultant. A facilitator may get $100/hr.

Ed Melby said there are certain things that are related; the senior housing, water, septic for instance. Jeff agreed; we’ve had the village plan, the senior housing, Burns property, a design charette a few years ago and these have to be considered in this. Jeff said he does have some materials on how to review the qualifications; based on some of the statements that come out of this and information gleaned out of these proposals may give us additional ideas on how to proceed.

Dean said it is important to have the public input and cautioned about getting a good product that now sits on a shelf and no one does anything about it.

Dean Bloch has a copy of the recommendations in the files. David Woolf has a copy from 1990. Dean did sent something to members of the Village Committee and there were only a couple of calls regarding that so the Planning Commission needs to take the ball and go with it. Al said some of these suggestions are incorporated in the Town Plan. Marty said some of the Affordable Housing Study is being implemented with the approvals of accessory apartments.

Jeff said there is a revolving loan fund available, but eventually that needs to be paid back. Then we need to know certain things before we can apply for this. Dean asked Jeff what the criteria was for this. Marty asks if they need to hire a consultant to find out the details. Jeff believes we have enough expertise on the Board to put the criteria together for this. This is a starting study; there’s not enough money for it to be a conclusive study.

Dave Brown suggested that perhaps 3 people can work on this between meetings to do some background. Dean has spoken with Dana Farley and with Jim Donovan and some others in town that expressed a desire to help with the preparations to get this Village Master Plan going. Dave would like to see these people work with a couple of people on the Planning Commission. David Woolf, Jeff McDonald and Jim Donovan appear willing to be on this committee.

Marty Illick asked about the interest on that revolving loan. Jeff said he believes it is between 3% and minus 3% based on the perceived income of the town. But this lasts for five years and eventually it does have to get paid back. The only limit for the loan is what the State has in their budget. Beyond the preliminary study, when it goes to design phase there has to be a bond vote before they will give approval for additional loan money.

Sylvia Sprigg asked how inclusive the septic study is. If they still have the potential of this low interest perhaps some of it could be used for sewage, water reserves, wetland studies etc. this could be included in seeing what needs to be done to make this Village Master Plan happen. Jack Clemmons emphasized the importance of water studies; he supplied additional water for someone.

Dave Brown related some issues with wells as they relate to wetlands and cautioned about the possibility of drying up some of the wetlands. With just the additional wells that have been drilled in recent years in the village, the well for those few homes on Limerick Acres went from 75 gallons per minute, 30 years ago, to 40 gallons per minute now. If for those nine house it goes down to 27 gallons per minute with some of the new proposals for the village, they may be having a hard time with their water.

Marty Illick spoke about the December 20^th hearing on the Town Plan. The Town Plan draft will have one hour allocated on December 20^th with a strong possibility that the hearing would be continued if necessary on that date and not re-advertised for an additional hearing. Both newspapers require 15 days notice to re-advertise and there is not enough time. If there is so much saturation of ideas and changes that appear necessary, and it seems that there would not be enough time before January 3^rd to get these new ideas on the table to create another document, it is believed that the Selectboard would opt to re-adopt the old Town Plan. Rather than to have this Town Plan fail and to end up with no Town Plan at all, it would be better to have this done.

Al Moraska suggested that the contested areas just be removed, rather than to have all the work of the committees go for naught. Dave said he agrees with Al, in that those items that the people feel strongly about which may doom the whole plan could be dropped and worked on later, rather than throw the whole thing out.

Marty asked that Planning Commission members be there at the December 20^th hearing in order to answer questions and keep what is acceptable in there.

Sylvia Sprigg voiced concerns that the only hearing advertised would be December 20^th, but subsequent continuations would not be publicized and the only people who would know when they are held, are the ones who could make the December 20^th hearing but agreed that the article in the Charlotte News warn that the December 20^th Hearing is likely to be continued. She suggested that they could at least use the Town’s web-site. Marty agreed that could happen if necessary. It all has to take place before January 3^rd.

Dean agreed to draft an article for the Charlotte News and to ask for special consideration to waive the time deadline and to get it into the next issue.

At 10:15 p.m Al Moraska moved to adjourn and Dave Brown seconded; the vote was 6–0 with 1 absent.

APPROVED BY THE CHARLOTTE PLANNING COMMISSION